Tow Vehicle Impressions - Window Shopping at Auto Show

Selkirk

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2021
Posts
482
Location
Calgary
In the ongoing quest to decide on my next tow vehicle, I visited the local auto show over the weekend with the intent to check out the current crop of mid-size and 1/2 ton trucks. I was most interested in looking at real-world payload capacities and obtaining an overall feel of each vehicle.

I looked at various examples the F150, Ram 1500, Sierra/Silverado 1500, Tundra, Colorado/Canyon, Frontier, and Tacoma. Unfortunately, Ford did not bring a Ranger to the show :(. All were highly-optioned versions (not what I would order). That probably means that the payload ratings I saw are close to the worst case scenario.

Here are some broad conclusions:

  • The Canadian MSRP pricing on any new truck is truly sinus-clearing. Granted, nearly all the display vehicles were top-spec models, but holy cow these things are pricy! The cheapest truck was the Frontier, which stickered at around $65K. All others were in the $75K - $100K range. If you think that's bad, the diesel 3/4 and 1 ton models on display from GM/Ford/Ram all stickered at $120K - $130K. Even worse is to think that prices are likely to increase even further in the not-too-distant future.

  • Payload ratings were disappointing across the board. Again, this is likely due to the high-level options/trims. It serves as a reminder as to how much premium creature comforts can compromise towing/hauling capacity.
    • Sierra, Silverado, and F150: 1300-1400lbs
    • Colorado/Canyon: 1300lbs
    • Tundra and Tacoma: 1200lbs
    • Ram: 1000lbs
    • Frontier: 900lbs

  • GM really surprised me with the quality of their interiors. They seemed to be the nicest/least plasticky feeling of the bunch. They really appear to have stepped up their game as of late. The F150's interior (a high-optioned XLT Tremor) was the worst by a wide margin.

  • The new 4th gen Tacoma is very nice in terms is size and overall fit/and finish, but over $85k for the hybrid Trailhunter model on display.....yikes! It was also disappointing to see that the payload increases that Toyota originally touted over the 2nd/3rd gen trucks is not reflected in the real world. I've looked at lower spec non-hybrid 4th gen models with about the same payload capacity. That pretty much eliminates the Tacoma from my list of contenders.

  • The fit/finish of the $100K Tundra didn't seem to be quite as good as the Tacoma (nor the similarly priced GM/Ram models). Surprisingly, both the Tundra and Tacoma on display had about the same payload ratings. However, according to Toyota, the specific Tundra model I am considering (extended cab SR5 4wd) offers much greater capacity...about 1800lbs. I definitely want to verify that.

I don't know if I'm any closer to reaching a decision, but it was an interesting experience non-the-less. On the non-truck side, my overall favorite car at the show was the Subaru BRZ. $40K CAD out-the-door for a very capable purpose-built sports car seems like an incredible value in the current market.
 
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  • The fit/finish of the $100K Tundra didn't seem to be quite as good as the Tacoma (nor the similarly priced GM/Ram models). Surprisingly, both the Tundra and Tacoma on display had about the same payload ratings. However, according to Toyota, the specific Tundra model I am considering (extended cab SR5 4wd) offers much greater capacity...about 1800lbs. I definitely want to verify that.
Thanks for the report.

A similarly specced Tundra interests me as well but $100,000 is pretty steep. I think our current one will last a while yet.
 
Thanks for the report.

A similarly specced Tundra interests me as well but $100,000 is pretty steep. I think our current one will last a while yet.
I agree and I'm thinking at current prices even with a little more major problem it might make sense to repair it and keep it.

Ron
 
Last week while buying spark plugs and wires from an OM retailer for our 2011 / 200K+ miles Silverado, I also queried him about the reliability of our original 6 speed transmission. He told me he has a fleet of delivery pickups which includes 3 Silverados newer than 2020, all of which needed new transmissions prior to reaching 100,000 miles. He added that tthey are all 10 speed transmissions and that our old 6 speed transmission is a better design much more reliable. Just FYI.

John
 
FWIW, my heavily optioned 8 seat 4x4 Expedition SUV (2019 Limited Stealth Edition) has a payload of 1500 lbs. And, it has the same engine, transmission, etc as the newer F150's... Any of those pickup trucks, the 4-door crew cab really eats into the truck payload.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think in Canada is there also not a 15% luxury tax on a vehicle over $100k?
As I type this I'm thinking that may not apply to trucks as they are still considered a "work" vehicle.
 
Thanks for the report.

A similarly specced Tundra interests me as well but $100,000 is pretty steep. I think our current one will last a while yet.
We paid $38k+ taxes (Canadian) for ours in 2019. SR5 4x4, did our own aftermarket upgrades (wheels, tires, lighting, bumper, suspension).

I couldn't justify the prices now. Bur to be honest, I think it will last another +20y if I upkeep it and they are still producing gasoline in 2045.

Towing numbers and payloads will vary from maker to maker. From what I know, Toyota understates theirs and some companies overstate them.
 
Last week while buying spark plugs and wires from an OM retailer for our 2011 / 200K+ miles Silverado, I also queried him about the reliability of our original 6 speed transmission. He told me he has a fleet of delivery pickups which includes 3 Silverados newer than 2020, all of which needed new transmissions prior to reaching 100,000 miles. He added that tthey are all 10 speed transmissions and that our old 6 speed transmission is a better design much more reliable. Just FYI.

John
Apparently, GM is having huge problems with valve bodies in their 10 speeds and can't keep up with replacement parts. They're also having major problems with the recent V8s with cylinder deactivation.
 
It’s my understanding that the 10 speed transmission you reference was a collaboration between GM and Ford. Is Ford having any issues with their 10 speed transmissions?
 
In December 2023 I bought a 2024 Toyota Tundra to replace my 2013 Tacoma as a tow vehicle (I kept the Tacoma). My Tundra is the same design as the current one. It has the shorter cab, still with four doors, and the longer 6.5-foot bed. Here is the info from the sticker:

GVWR: 3295 kg / 7265 lbs.
GAWR front: 1850 kg / 4080 lbs.
GAWR rear: 1750 kg / 3860 lbs.
 
My overall impression is that the Tundra is not as well designed as the Tacoma. In particular I think the interior design is poor. There's no one big deal breaker, but a lot of small annoyances.

I didn't get a lot of features on the Tundra and now I wish I had. In particular there are additional cameras and sensors available to help maneuver the big thing in traffic and while parking. Those would be more useful than I thought at the time of purchase.
 
My friend shortened his recent camping trip because his 10-Speed F150 (2020 or 2021?) was hard shifting up and down across a range of gears and speeds. He’s not a happy camper. Loves the truck though.

Our 2016 6-Speed F150 is doing just fine at just over 75K miles. Plus, it doesn’t include a payment plan.👍
 
Truck aftermarket companies have been slow to make products for the current style Tundra, which began in 2022. For instance Ranch Hand has only recently started making a brush guard for it. An extended range fuel tank is in the works by a company in Boise but the last time I checked it wasn't ready. I want both before I make a trip to Alaska.
 
My understanding is that Ford updated their version of the10speed a couple of years ago, which addressed the worst of the initial reliability issues. I think the valve body is a different design from the GM version.

The current full size 1/2 ton offering presents quite the dilemma for me:
- GM trucks have known issues with the 5.3 and 6.2 engines and transmissions. Plus, I see a high number of relatively young GM trucks on the road with quite a bit of rust.
- The new Hurricane turbo I6 in the Ram 1500 needs more time to prove itself. Plus reliability has not been a strong suite for any Stellantis vehicle.
- The F150 offers some decently reliable/proven powertrains (I'm really drawn to the 5.0 V8) and a rust-resistant aluminum body, but I'm concerned how well other aspects (especially electrical/electronic components) of the truck will hold up over the long term. The most satisfied F150 owners I've talked to are those who trade in every 4-5 years. If I'm spending $70k+ on a new truck, I expect 10-15 years of reliable service with routine maintenance.
- I really want to like the Tundra, but the engine really concerns me. I need confidence that the issues which affected earlier model years are fully resolved in the 2025+ trucks.
 
It’s my understanding that the 10 speed transmission you reference was a collaboration between GM and Ford. Is Ford having any issues with their 10 speed transmissions?
Apparently not, my understanding is that their valve bodies are slightly different. Some outfit whose name escapes me looked at the GM valve bodies, determined the issue and manufactures aftermarket valve bodies that fix the problem.
 
- I really want to like the Tundra, but the engine really concerns me. I need confidence that the issues which affected earlier model years are fully resolved in the 2025+ trucks.
When I was in at Toyota for some service last year I had the opportunity to take a ride with one of the techs. I asked him about the problems with the newer Tundra motors. His reply was that their dealership was not seeing any of those problems and he speculated it may be mostly limited to Tundras in the US.
I don't know one way or the other, I'm just reporting what he said.
 
The current full size 1/2 ton offering presents quite the dilemma for me
This isn't a "current" dilemma, it's always been the case that you'll have a very long (as in "forever") wait if you hold-out for a vehicle with no 'issues' reported! :ROFLMAO:

IMO when your current vehicle becomes an untenable worry or burden, or you see modern features that are compelling, it's time to apply your best judgment, pick among the 'lesser of the available evils', and make the move.

Don't let life pass you by hoping for perfection in commodities created by never-perfect human endeavors (ask any astronaut!) ;)
 
The Ford 10 speeds have had issues. By mid 2022, the latest TSB covers valve bodies and the CDF drum. The latest trannys since then have the newer bodies and drums. My tranny is a ‘21, and so far I have not had issues, but I have an aftermarket dipstick and pan which allows easier fluid and filter service. I’m also still low mileage.
 
Don't let life pass you by hoping for perfection in commodities created by never-perfect human endeavors (ask any astronaut!) ;)
One of my favorite quotes by Ann Lamont, “Perfection is the voice of the oppressor.”

If you wait for the perfect fill-in-the-blank to come around, life will pass you by.
 
2024 Tundra -- the good stuff

- It's powerful, overkill for pulling an Escape. It can sling our little trailers around like yo-yoes.
- It's reasonably efficient given its size. On my maiden voyage from Florida to Quartzsite, AZ last year I drove for five days almost all on I-10. The Tundra got 13 mpg towing. That's what my Tacoma gets, and the Tundra weighs three tons, a ton more than the Tacoma.
- It has a camera that reads speed limit signs and displays the info on the instrument panel. This may be common nowadays, I dunno, but I find it handy.
- The ride is reasonably good considering it's a 4WD with offroad suspension. More on that later.
 

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