Towing with a 2020 Honda Ridgeline

[Pairofkings]

Need some assistance regarding questions about tongue weight and the GVWR on my rig.

Tow vehicle 2020 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E AWD
Max tow capacity 5000 lbs.
Max tongue weight 600 lbs.
Weight limits: Max cargo load limit 1477 lbs.
Front gross axle 3131 lbs.
Rear gross axle 3219 lbs.
Gross Vehicle 6019 lbs.
Gross Combined 9987 lbs.
Trailer 2022 21C

I went to the CAT scales today and weighed my rig three times to gather information and hopefully determine the tongue weight of the trailer. The following conditions were met….The truck was full of fuel. 2 occupants. Normal assortment of camping gear in the bed of the truck. The trailer has a Fastway E2 6000 lb WDH.
The trailer had full propane tanks, full water tank, empty gray water tank, no black tank (composting toilet) Normal gear for a camping trip.

Weight 1 Truck and trailer connected with WDH and sway bars connected.
Front Axle 2800 lbs.
Rear Axle 2820 lbs.
Trailer 4720 lbs.
Total 10340 lbs.

Weight 2 Truck and trailer connected with WDH sway bars removed and stored in truck bed.
Front Axle 2560 lbs.
Rear Axle 3080 lbs.
Trailer 4620 lbs.
Total 10260 lbs. (I can’t explain why there is 80 lbs difference from weight 1 as all items were included)

Weight 3 Truck only with sway bars in the truck bed.
Front Axle 2780 lbs.
Rear Axle 2460 lbs.
Total 5240 lbs.

When I installed the Fastway E2 I measured the distance from the ground to the top of the front wheel fender well both with the trailer unattached and then attached. After connecting the trailer and adjusting the WDH I was able to get back to the original measurement when the trailer was not attached. With this configuration both the truck and trailer are level to the ground.

This is my first travel trailer and I want to have it set up for safe and trouble free towing. I realize I will be towing a load that is close to the maximum capacity of my tow vehicle. I don’t have the option of getting a different tow vehicle at this time. The few times I have towed the trailer have been very easy. The truck tows great with no sway or excessive bouncing between the truck and trailer. I have only towed on state roads and kept my max speed between 55-60 mph. I’ve averaged 16.5-18 MPG on these trips. I also have a Scan Gauge II to monitor the transmission temperature. The highest temp I have seen was 180 degrees when the ambient temperature was 95 degrees.

I realize from the data attached I will need to reduce weight someplace on my rig. The quickest and easiest option is to empty the water tank and fill up when I reach my destination. My questions are where would be the best place…Truck or trailer to reduce weight or do I also need to make adjustments to the WDH. In addition, is there enough data here to calculate the tongue weight of the trailer?

I respect the experience and wisdom of the members of this forum and look forward to your constructive opinions. TIA

 

[Centex]

Attached FYI is a spreadsheet I developed with your Cat Scale Data plugged-in. I'll be glad to email a copy of that Excel spreadsheet for your use if you would like, drop me a PM with your address, I can't attach an xlsx file on this forum.

Some thoughts for your consideration ...

• The main things that 'pops' for me is your tongue weight being below the desired 10% of total trailer weight threshold. I don't discount the exceedance of the Ridgeline's GTWR and GCWR, but you're close on those and IMO that's a secondary concern (noting you're within the Ridgeline axle-ratings). Personally I prefer a tongue-weight bias well-over 10% to help ensure prevention of dread trailer-sway.

• Given a ~28 gallon fresh water tank and 8,35#/Gallon weight of water, the 'fresh water factor' is ~230 pounds plus ~50# of water in the water heater tank; both of those are weights carried behind the axle of your 21C if I'm not mistaken. EDIT - upon looking at the 21C specs I see the HWH is located in front of the axles.

Personally I'd focus first on reallocating weight in the trailer with the aim of increasing the tongue-weight % (that's as measured with the WDH not engaged).

Given the main freshwater tank location, running with no fresh water in that would likely take you in that direction as well as helping with the trailer weight/GCWR exceedances. I might be inclined to leave water captive in the HWH in front of the axles.

Other adjustments / reductions to cargo in the trailer could help but IMO that should be done considering that more weight bias to the front of the axles is indicated (that tongue weight % of total again).

All of the above is as 'measured' without the WDH engaged / tensioned.

I would not think about the WDH adjustment until the overall and tongue-weight % goals have been met. Then you may need to adjust the WDH to restore the trailer and Ridgeline levels to the desired attitude. Your existing CAT Scale data with the WDH engaged indicates that you will have no problem staying within each axle's limits when you do that.

All just for your consideration, kudos for actually getting 'good' data on your rig for optimizing your towing experience.

(I'm not disconcerted by the ~80# total weight 'discrepancy', IMO that's not a make-or-break factor in any of this)

Have Fun!

PS - I had a 2019 Ridgeline RTL-E, a wonderful vehicle I loved driving, but alas not suitable for my 5.0 so it and its fantastic trunk and swing-gate are gone

 

[Micheal K]

If your trailer was level with the wdh in place, then I suspect your suspension was probably sagging quite a bit when you removed the wdh bars and took your second set of axle weight measurements. If so, that would make the trailer tongue too low (so not a level trailer) and with a tandem axle trailer in that state the tongue weight is reduced and the leading trailer axle carries more load. The trailer should be level when determining the tongue weight.

Probably best to measure the tongue weight directly with a tongue weight scale.

 

[Brian B-P]

(I can’t explain why there is 80 lbs difference from weight 1 as all items were included)

A truck scale typically has an accuracy of +/- 10 kg or 20 lb on each reading, which is not a problem for their intended purpose. The total weight is a total of three values, so each total could be as much as 60 lb off of the actual weight, and the difference between two totals could be out by up to 120 pounds. The discrepancy is annoying, but not a problem.

 

[Brian B-P]

...
Weight 1 Truck and trailer connected with WDH and sway bars connected.
Front Axle 2800 lbs.
Rear Axle 2820 lbs.
Trailer 4720 lbs.
Total 10340 lbs.

Weight 2 Truck and trailer connected with WDH sway bars removed and stored in truck bed.
Front Axle 2560 lbs.
Rear Axle 3080 lbs.
Trailer 4620 lbs.
Total 10260 lbs. (I can’t explain why there is 80 lbs difference from weight 1 as all items were included)

Weight 3 Truck only with sway bars in the truck bed.
Front Axle 2780 lbs.
Rear Axle 2460 lbs.
Total 5240 lbs.

When I installed the Fastway E2 I measured the distance from the ground to the top of the front wheel fender well both with the trailer unattached and then attached. After connecting the trailer and adjusting the WDH I was able to get back to the original measurement when the trailer was not attached.

The usual recommendation for WDH adjustment is to do about what was done here - to restore the front axle load to almost same value as it had without the trailer attached (2800 lb with WDH installed and adjusted, versus 2780 lb without the trailer). It may be over-adjusted a bit, since the front axle load with trailer should be less than 2780, not more), but it's very close and there is some scale error.

About 240 pounds of load is being transferred from the rear axle to the front axle, and 100 pounds from the rear axle to the trailer axle, with the changing position of the WDH spring bars confusing the situation enough that these don't quite add up to the 260 pounds of load taken from the rear axle.

Since the rear axle load even without the WDH in use is within the rear axle's GAWR, it looks like the WDH is not needed for its basic function of avoiding excessive rear axle load... but if Honda says to use it, use it. More importantly, as Michael explained the hitch load would be higher if the trailer were hitched at the proper height without WDH, so the WDH is doing more than these values would suggest.

 

[Crazypill]

I'm just gonna throw a nonscientific vote of confidence in here for the ridgeline with an anecdotal experience.

I've been towing my 21NE with a 2021 Ridgeline for like 7000 miles now, over the rockies, across the windy plains, to the southeast, and now in northern Maine AT maximum GCVWR the entire time and its been totally fine and chill, average 13.8 mpg over the entire trip. It was struggling a bit in the sharpest climbs of the Rockies but it did the job. If you do a lot of towing in those areas I'd probably get a Tundra, otherwise, I would make sure your tongue weight is good and you are at or below max gcvwr and don't sweat it beyond that. Generally if you can avoid towing a full water tank that'd be ideal. We have an interior 4 gallon reverse osmosis holding tank for service and drinking water when the 30 gallon underbelly is empty.

 

[Brian B-P]

...
Tow vehicle 2020 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E AWD
Max tow capacity 5000 lbs.
Max tongue weight 600 lbs.
Weight limits: Max cargo load limit 1477 lbs.
Front gross axle 3131 lbs.
Rear gross axle 3219 lbs.
Gross Vehicle 6019 lbs.
Gross Combined 9987 lbs.
Trailer 2022 21C

...

Weight 1 Truck and trailer connected with WDH and sway bars connected.
Front Axle 2800 lbs.
Rear Axle 2820 lbs.
Trailer 4720 lbs.
Total 10340 lbs.

Weight 2 Truck and trailer connected with WDH sway bars removed and stored in truck bed.
Front Axle 2560 lbs.
Rear Axle 3080 lbs.
Trailer 4620 lbs.
Total 10260 lbs. (I can’t explain why there is 80 lbs difference from weight 1 as all items were included)

Weight 3 Truck only with sway bars in the truck bed.
Front Axle 2780 lbs.
Rear Axle 2460 lbs.
Total 5240 lbs.

...

I realize from the data attached I will need to reduce weight someplace on my rig. The quickest and easiest option is to empty the water tank and fill up when I reach my destination. My questions are where would be the best place…Truck or trailer to reduce weight or do I also need to make adjustments to the WDH. In addition, is there enough data here to calculate the tongue weight of the trailer?

The difference between the truck-only weight and the complete rig weight (using the average of the two values, which is 10,300 lb) indicates that the loaded trailer weighs roughly 5,060 pounds. That's presumably okay for the trailer (GVWR of 5500 pounds?), but with the people and cargo it takes the gross combined weight of the rig past the truck's limit (the GCWR). While it's not by a lot, I agree that some load should be removed.

I wouldn't want to travel without water (and without waste after camping) and so be restricted to fully using the trailer only at serviced campgrounds, but that's a matter of personal style of use.

By the time you combine all of the readings to determine the tongue weight there is significant error, especially compared to the tongue weight which is much lower than the vehicle weights. But for a rough indication, the trailer appears to weigh 5,060 pounds but (without the WDH in use) the trailer axles carry only 4620 pounds, leaving 380 pounds to be carried by the hitch. As Centex noted that's low (as a percentage of the trailer weight), but as Michael explained it's also wrong - if the tongue were at the right height (as it is with the WDH engaged) the hitch weight will be substantially higher. I agree with Michael - measure the tongue weight with a separate scale with the trailer unhitched and the tongue at the right height to get a valid indication of tongue weight.