Will Soon Upgrade my 2 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries to 1 (possibly 2!) 460Ah LiFePO4 batteries

Not sure if you were trying to say you can charge a 600Ah battery using 1lb of propane, but that 7kWh is the chemical energy of propane. At best, most small portable generators are only 15% efficient in converting that chemical energy into electrical energy. Given there are also losses in the charging system, you're looking at roughly half of a 20 pound tank of propane to charge a 600Ah battery.
My point is that large batteries only make sense for a really long term boondocking, when you can't get propane and can only use solar energy. Otherwise, it's probably cheaper just to refill propane tanks because propane stores so much more energy and can power generators. Basically, whenever you have to get fresh food, you can also refill propane. Run a propane generator for a few hours, recharge batteries for a few more days. It maybe makes sense to upgrade the converter from 55A to 100-150A if you have a large (400-800Ah) battery bank. It is much more efficient to run a generator at full speed, with 100A+ charging.
Solar only works when you are in direct sun, and that is when you would need A/C, too, coincidentally. Unless you are in Arizona during winter or somewhere high in the mountains.
 
My point is that large batteries only make sense for a really long term boondocking, when you can't get propane and can only use solar energy. Otherwise, it's probably cheaper just to refill propane tanks because propane stores so much more energy and can power generators. Basically, whenever you have to get fresh food, you can also refill propane. Run a propane generator for a few hours, recharge batteries for a few more days. It maybe makes sense to upgrade the converter from 55A to 100-150A if you have a large (400-800Ah) battery bank. It is much more efficient to run a generator at full speed, with 100A+ charging.
Solar only works when you are in direct sun, and that is when you would need A/C, too, coincidentally. Unless you are in Arizona during winter or somewhere high in the mountains.
Ah, got it, thanks for clarifying.

FWIW, we are probably unusual, but we get a lot of use/benefit out of our somewhat large(920ah) battery bank. We have a generator and solar too, but most places we camp don't allow generators, and we also prefer shady campsites where we don't get a lot of sun, which rules out solar. In Virginia in the summer though, it's still stinking hot and humid in the shade, so having the AC is really nice to have.

So maybe the benefit depends on where you camp? If we routinely camped in sunny areas, I could definitely see relying more on solar.
 
My point is that large batteries only make sense for a really long term boondocking, when you can't get propane and can only use solar energy. Otherwise, it's probably cheaper just to refill propane tanks because propane stores so much more energy and can power generators.
IMO to say that "large batteries only make sense for a really long term boondocking ...." fails to recognize the wide range of camping habits folks enjoy.

I, for one among I suspect many, enjoy many off-grid stints of only 2-5 days (far from "really long term") with all of my electrical demands satisfied by a 'large' 400Ah battery and solar. That in 100% blissful silence without messing with any fossil-fuel or generator for any amount of run time. I'll note that many of those stints are in shaded or partially-shaded sites.

And if "cheaper" is the criteria, I'm certain it can be shown that the life-cycle cost of my system and its operation is substantially lower than supplementing a smaller battery with a propane generator.

YMMV, but that's my point. ;)
 
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IMO to say that "large batteries only make sense for a really long term boondocking ...." fails to recognize the wide range of camping habits folks enjoy.
YMMV, but that's my point. ;)
Sadly, that's often the case with replies. Facts are one thing but personal preferences and usage are another.

Ron
 
Sadly, that's often the case with replies. Facts are one thing but personal preferences and usage are another.
Yeah, too often these days folks throw-out 'absolute' terms as if 'one-size-fits all'. :cautious:

And too often the unsuspecting or uninformed accept that as 'gospel' or 'fact'. :rolleyes:

IMO that requires corrective mitigation for the interest of all. ;).
 
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IMO to say that "large batteries only make sense for a really long term boondocking ...." fails to recognize the wide range of camping habits folks enjoy.

...

YMMV, but that's my point. ;)
Agree, let me rephrase.

For 2-5 days, you don't really need 2 460Ah batteries. One, maybe, but not 2.
With 100Ah/day capacity, you can even run induction cooktop and instant pot. But you could as well survive with 20Ah/day just for essential electrical needs and gas cooking.

In case of 30 day boondocking in the woods w/t direct sun, I would think that 800-900Ah could cover essential needs of 20-30Ah/day for things like fans and lights. That is what I meant by long-term boondocking without solar or generators. I have never done that long myself, just thought about it.
There are also food constraints - not sure if even 6 cu ft fridge can hold enough for 30 days.
 
You guys are a blast. :LOL:

I've bumped into the learning curve again. I'm floundering.

Here's my question: Rather than my buying a Victron Multiplus Inverter charger, is there any reason why I cannot buy a 'dumb/simple' inverter? Example: 3000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter or https://www.litime.com/products/300...utY-0nnSRONdxm63TEjByKyuGqueZe-Rctg79hYzSglMt

Can I keep it simple? Can I keep the components which are already in my trailer, but just upgrade batteries and inverter?

My wife and son are concerned I am getting in over my head with a Victron Multiplus. [I, too, worry that I'm biting off more than I can chew.]
 
I'm floundering
Michael, I can't help but think that you're floundering because you still haven't identified your system needs. It's like you're shopping for a tow vehicle without knowing the size and type of trailer you want to tow.

I again refer to this post and this post and resources such as Beginner's Guide: Sizing Your Solar System and RV Solar Calculator + Essential Guide to RV Solar Power — Nomads in Nature (google will reveal other resources relating to sizing RV solar and storage systems).

Rather than bouncing-around looking at the overwhelming variety of hardware on the market (solar panels, batteries, chargers, inverters, etc, etc, etc), I urge you to expend that learning-curve effort first on identifying and quantifying your needs.

Yes, that does take some research and effort and that does involve some arithmetic (it does not require a spreadsheet, use a legal-pad and a simple calculator if that's where you're more comfortable); enlist the aid of the DIL/SIL if needed.

Once you have a realistic and quantified estimate of your energy needs I think you'll be able to focus much more efficiently and confidently on the hardware options to meet those needs.

Just one opinion for your consideration.
 
I'm in the middle of my second upgrade using a "dumb/simple" inverter. It will work fine with the right components and wiring. You'll end up buying more parts (e.g., a transfer switch, if you don't have one already) and doing more work on the wiring, but once you have it all together, it'll work just as well as a "fancy" inverter combo. You'll learn more about how things work too, which for me is part of the fun.
 
I'm in the middle of my second upgrade using a "dumb/simple" inverter. It will work fine with the right components and wiring. You'll end up buying more parts (e.g., a transfer switch, if you don't have one already) and doing more work on the wiring, but once you have it all together, it'll work just as well as a "fancy" inverter combo. You'll learn more about how things work too, which for me is part of the fun.
Thank you.
 
Michael, I can't help but think that you're floundering because you still haven't identified your system needs. It's like you're shopping for a tow vehicle without knowing the size and type of trailer you want to tow.

I again refer to this post and this post and resources such as Beginner's Guide: Sizing Your Solar System and RV Solar Calculator + Essential Guide to RV Solar Power — Nomads in Nature (google will reveal other resources relating to sizing RV solar and storage systems).

Rather than bouncing-around looking at the overwhelming variety of hardware on the market (solar panels, batteries, chargers, inverters, etc, etc, etc), I urge you to expend that learning-curve effort first on identifying and quantifying your needs.

Yes, that does take some research and effort and that does involve some arithmetic (it does not require a spreadsheet, use a legal-pad and a simple calculator if that's where you're more comfortable); enlist the aid of the DIL/SIL if needed.

Once you have a realistic and quantified estimate of your energy needs I think you'll be able to focus much more efficiently and confidently on the hardware options to meet those needs.

Just one opinion for your consideration.
Why yes, I have identified and quantified my current needs: I need one 3000w inverter. I'll contact manufacturers to find the one that best fits my needs. Then, I will purchase it. If I need additional components, I'll buy those as well. Thank you.

My son is concerned that I'm spending so much time on this effort. He asked if a simpler inverter would fulfill our needs. I told him I'd ask other folks for their thoughts.
 
In choosing an inverter there are many good options. The first time I went with a Giandel 3000w on the recommendation of Will Prowse and because the form factor fit my limited space. The second time I went with Giandel again because it worked fine the first time. Hope you enjoy the process!
 
Agree, let me rephrase.

For 2-5 days, you don't really need 2 460Ah batteries. One, maybe, but not 2.
With 100Ah/day capacity, you can even run induction cooktop and instant pot. But you could as well survive with 20Ah/day just for essential electrical needs and gas cooking.

In case of 30 day boondocking in the woods w/t direct sun, I would think that 800-900Ah could cover essential needs of 20-30Ah/day for things like fans and lights. That is what I meant by long-term boondocking without solar or generators. I have never done that long myself, just thought about it.
There are also food constraints - not sure if even 6 cu ft fridge can hold enough for 30 days.
As someone who easily burns through the capacity of two 460Ah batteries in a few days, I disagree. It all depends on what you're trying to run.
 
Then, I will purchase it. If I need additional components, I'll buy those as well.

He asked if a simpler inverter would fulfill our needs. I told him I'd ask other folks for their thoughts.
On my 19 I kept it real simple. One inverter hooked up with heavy cables to battery. One DT-DP switch used as a transfer switch to one outlet. Same as I'd done twice before. Works for me.

Ron
 

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You guys are a blast. :LOL:

I've bumped into the learning curve again. I'm floundering.

Here's my question: Rather than my buying a Victron Multiplus Inverter charger, is there any reason why I cannot buy a 'dumb/simple' inverter? Example: 3000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter or https://www.litime.com/products/300...utY-0nnSRONdxm63TEjByKyuGqueZe-Rctg79hYzSglMt

Can I keep it simple? Can I keep the components which are already in my trailer, but just upgrade batteries and inverter?

My wife and son are concerned I am getting in over my head with a Victron Multiplus. [I, too, worry that I'm biting off more than I can chew.]
Yes, you certainly can. I recently installed that same Renogy 3000W inverter (along with a Progressive Dynamics automatic transfer switch and a subpanel) in our 5.0 and it all works just fine. It was a bit of a tight squeeze though getting everything to fit under our dinette seating with the recommended clearances for each component.
 

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indeed, 2 x 460AH LFP is about 12KWH, using that in 2 days is 6KWH a day, or in 3 is 4KWH a day. when camping, I'm not using much over around 4KWH a WEEK.
 
One advantage of the Victron inverter, assuming its a feature with benefit for you, is if you're plugged in to a say a 15A/20A/30A circuit and you need more current than the 15A/20A is capable of delivering the Multi-Plus/II will merge current from the battery bank with the current from shore power to meet the demand(s).
 

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