WINTER WARNING for 5.0TA owners

[escape artist]

Hi: All... I don't like the idea of running antifreeze thru the supply lines. Don't mind it in the drains. After blowing out all lines and draining all tanks I found the pump supply line had enough water just outside the fresh tank to cause a problem!!!
I had disconnected the lines from the pump so I did the old manual blow by mouth trick and the water went back into the fresh tank. I hope it evaporates from there as there was enough to freeze solid and crack the line. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

 

[Donna D.]

Alf, after blowing the lines did you run the pump for 20-30 seconds as suggested from ETI?

 

[cpaharley2008]

This was the same issue I had in my 21' Escape, the supply line was holding water, even after running the pump 30 seconds. Next time I'm going to tilt the trailer nose down and see if that helps. Can not remove the line for blowing. IMHO a low point drain between the fresh tank in the rear and the pump in the front would solve this issue.

 

[escape artist]

Alf, after blowing the lines did you run the pump for 20-30 seconds as suggested from ETI?

Hi: Donna D... Yes I did. After winterizing the trailer I moved it to the front yard and left the spigot open from the fresh tank. Water poured out in a stream down the drive but some residual water stayed in the line to the pump. That could cause a big problem!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

 

[LeonW]

Thanks, Alf. I guess I need to go to the storage place today and see if that is also true for 21s. We are getting about 6" of snow today. High of 28 degrees Fahrenheit. Winter is here...

 

[Donna D.]

Well dang. Guess I'd better check it too. Thanks for the heads up Alf!

 

[floorpanel]

Thanks for the heads up, I checked my 21 and also had a small amount of water in the line. I just dissconnected and let it drain. Hopefully that will be sufficient

 

[padlin]

For those with a winterizing kit installed, and use it, this is not an issue. I can see how it would be for those without.

 

[Brian B-P]

Alf, after blowing the lines did you run the pump for 20-30 seconds as suggested from ETI?

Hi: Donna D... Yes I did. After winterizing the trailer I moved it to the front yard and left the spigot open from the fresh tank. Water poured out in a stream down the drive but some residual water stayed in the line to the pump.

Okay Alf, but did you run the pump after draining the tank and before blowing out the lines?

From manual:

Method 1 - Compressed Air (Dry)
1. Purchase 1 gallon of RV non-toxic anti-freeze.
2. Drain the fresh water tank and empty the waste water holding tanks.
3. Turn water heater by-pass valve to by-pass position. (The by pass valve is located near the water heater incoming lines.)
4. Drain water heater.
5. Open all faucets, including shower head sprayer, toilet flushing device and any other water lines that are closed.
6. Turn on the water pump for 30 seconds to clear out any water in the lines.
7. Connect an air hose with an adapter (blow plug) to the city water fill connection.
8. Set the pressure no greater than 50 pounds and blow out the water lines until no water can be seen coming out of the fixtures and lines.
9. Pour anti-freeze down shower, lavatory sink, and kitchen sink to fill p-traps.

More than 30 seconds might be required, but it seems even that might not be enough...

This was the same issue I had in my 21' Escape, the supply line was holding water, even after running the pump 30 seconds.
...
IMHO a low point drain between the fresh tank in the rear and the pump in the front would solve this issue.

Yes, I agree... and if the pump is at the front (the fresh water tank is always in the back) then this is going to be a problem unless there is a good drain point. If the piping from tank to pump ran uphill only (no up-and-down, no dips) from the tank to the pump, the tank's drain would serve as a low-point drain for the tank-to-pump line. At the very least, a long line may mean more running time is required.

Putting antifreeze in the tank and pumping it through the lines would prevent a problem, but that assumes one is willing to put antifreeze in the freshwater tank.

 

[Brian B-P]

For those with a winterizing kit installed, and use it, this is not an issue. I can see how it would be for those without.

I'm not sure about that. Using a winterizing kit results in antifreeze flushing and filling the lines from the kit's tee connection and downstream. If there is water in the line between the tank and the tee connection, there can still be the problem with Alf described. Where does this tee go in a 5.0TA? Back by the tank or up by the pump... or somewhere in between?

 

[Brian B-P]

RVs are usually plumbed in plastic pipe, and that includes Escapes. There are some places where flexible hose is appropriate, such as the sections directly attached to the pump (inlet and outlet, to reduce noise and vibration). Another place for flex hose is anywhere that is particularly vulnerable to freezing, since it is much more forgiving than pipe.

My motorhome has a lot of flex tubing between the freshwater tank, city fill port, pump, winterizing inlet, and the diverter valve which allows the city water port to fill the tank. There's probably too much of it, but it has saved me from problems with freezing at the beginning of the winter. Even my old Escape-like trailer has flex hose from the tank to the pump, probably just for ease of routing through the floor. How much of this is flex hose in the 5.0TA?

 

[cpaharley2008]

I'm not sure about that. Using a winterizing kit results in antifreeze flushing and filling the lines from the kit's tee connection and downstream. If there is water in the line between the tank and the tee connection, there can still be the problem with Alf described. Where does this tee go in a 5.0TA? Back by the tank or up by the pump... or somewhere in between?

Exactly, I have the E-Z pump set up and it only handles from the pump forward. In the 19' Escape the fresh/tank supply lines were real short plus you had a low point drain. In the 21' and the 5.0 models your supply lines are a lot longer, this the issue exists, even with the E-Z set up but without low point drains. I feel that in the newer models there should be a low point drain in the rear that would drain the fresh line. The hot water side is handled by the e-Z set up.

 

[padlin]

One of the downfalls of the foam insulation is you have no idea what goes on underneath the trailer. The tank side of the winterizing T goes straight down through the floor beside the fill tube, exactly where it enters the tank is unknown, at least to me. So I'd guess there is a 90 degree elbow low on the tank and that should be about it.
The T is on the upper left, tubes crimped on. I don't see any flex.

 

[escape artist]

Hi: padlin... The hose that I blew water out of is the one in your pic at the top(left) of the 12V pump. I unscrewed the hold downs from the floor so I had enough line to get it above the dinette bench. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

 

[padlin]

I know you don't use it but I pumped the antifreeze through the connection you're talking about so no issue there. If gravity is doing it's thing I should be fine.

 

[cpaharley2008]

You guys then have it easy in the 5.0 with everything right there by the fill and tank, in the 21' it is about 12' away from the rear, forward under the bed where the pump and ez valve is located, that is about 12' of unknown? I assume the lines rise up and over the wheel wells and then back to the fresh tank. It is that rise over the wheel wells that is allowing the water to stay in the line.
As far as the fresh water fill before the bypass, it is should be winterized via the air or hand antifreeze pump method, but if the valve is shut for the bypass, will air or antifreeze be present in that dead space created by the water heater bypass from the outside fill to the water heater?

 

[cpaharley2008]

On second thought it must be coming in the cold line and exiting via the hot line so there is cold feed direct from the outside that is not being blown or antifreeze pumped. My bad.

 

[TAfraser]

Jim, to really confuse things, our 21 (#3 off the production line, # 6 overall) has the pump mounted directly above the fresh water tank behind the forward wall of the cabinet under the refrigerator.

We also have low point drains located behind the entrance step. After I blew out all lines and emptied the water heater I opened the low point drains and out came some water from each. I think it was only the water in the tubes that form the low point drains, but that could cause problems in colder climates.

So anyone with early 21s, check your low point drains, there is bound to be some water in the tubes.
Tom

 

[cpaharley2008]

I wonder why ETI stopped that low point drain, was it that darn toilet valve issue?

 

[bisonbill]

I've read the two pages in this thread and now I'm totally confused. I raised and lowered the trailer with the plug to the fresh water tank and waste tanks open. Most of the draining came when it was up. I can't find any other drain plugs outside, so I'm assuming there is no low drain plug on the 21.

I drained the water heater and turned the bypass value. I blew out the lines. I also ran the pump for 30 secs. There's anti freeze in the traps. Saturday I pulled the batteries and put the cover on.

Is there water some place else in a line somewhere in a 21 that needs to come out? If so, where is it?