Escape 5.0TA Towing Questions - Page 5 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 02-01-2016, 09:00 AM   #41
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The 2" receiver does a better job supporting a rack that doesn't move around. I think more racks out there are 2" as well. By the way, the 1Up is a phenomenal bike rack and rated for RV use.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:26 AM   #42
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2" is a standard size for a receiver, with most attachments and ball mounts being that size. Escape sized their stuff to match that. On some small vehicles, the receiver is 1 1/4", but that really is quite wimpy. On my F-350 it is 2 1/2", but that is only meant for heavy loads like the dump trailer I often pull.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:49 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
The reason Escape uses the 2" receiver is not because of it's size but they have lifts that are used in production that support the trailer, one in front and one in rear. If you take a look at the pictures under "it's Friday" thread you can see the receiver in use as well as some close up pictures. That thread should answer all your questions...
Saw a couple of pics of the 5.0TA receiver in this thread, thanks.

It's hard to tell what gauge tubing they're using. But, at first glance it looks like a very pretty robust design.
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:05 PM   #44
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Thanks for this photo and for the cautions. I seem to keep getting frustrated in my attempts to find a hitch set-up for a 5th wheel that does not clutter the bed. I am not fond of the tripods, whether on rails or not, because you'd still have junk in the bed when you are out travelling but unhooked from your trailer. I'll have to ask Reace if he knows of any solution. I had thought about storage boxes in front of and on the sides, leaving the space behind the flush-mounted ball clear.
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by FunBound View Post
I managed to get through to Escape Trailers in BC about an hour after I made my post. The lady who answered the phone, who sounded well versed about the Escape 5.0TA, said the 2" receiver was rated for 150 lbs. of tongue weight. Although she didn't give a maximum tow weight, she felt very confident it was strong enough to tow a jetski on a trailer (1000-1100 lbs). According to her a number of Escape 5.0TA owners had towed small boats behind their Escape 5.0TA.
This approval for towing is probably relatively recent, and presumably applies only to the 5.0TA (which is of course the model of interest). The feature is listed on the Escape website as "Bike Rack Ready (2″ Receiver)", not "Towing Hitch (2″ receiver)", even for the 5.0TA.

It's amusing that this is a well-known configuration for an Escape, given that it is illegal in British Columbia where Escapes are made.

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Originally Posted by FunBound View Post
FWIW, if Escape had only intended for it to support a bicycle rack, gotta wonder why they didn't use a 1 1/4" receiver instead. Even 1 1/4" receivers are typically rated to support at least 100/1000 lbs. (tongue weight/trailer weight).
As already mentioned, there is a much better selection of bike racks available for the 2" receiver size. People who buy receivers solely for bike racks routinely prefer 2".

1.25" receivers are routinely rated for the full limit of Class 1 (2000 pounds) or of Class 2 (3500 pounds), with a tongue weight limit of 10% of the trailer weight. For either bike racks or towing the second trailer, there is no strength issue with the smaller receiver; however, the carrying capacity for a rack can be much less than for a trailer tongue (because the rack extends out so much further), so 100 pounds of tongue weight capacity might be too low for some bike racks.

2.5" receivers are not needed for towing trailers up to 10,000 pounds (the Class 4 limit), but have become common for "heavy duty" pickup trucks, to handle those bigger trailers. Even some 2" receivers and ball mounts can handle far more than 10,000 pounds (the Andersen No-Sway WD hitch often discussed in this forum is a 2" unit rated for 14,000 pounds). In receiver opening size, it's more about availability of the stuff that plugs into them than the strength of the receiver.
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:40 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by FunBound View Post
Saw a couple of pics of the 5.0TA receiver in this thread, thanks.

It's hard to tell what gauge tubing they're using. But, at first glance it looks like a very pretty robust design.
I don't think the receiver tube is a concern at all - it's likely one of the standard tubes sold for custom receiver construction, and intended for use up to 10,000 pounds of trailer weight. The structural limitation will be the combination of bumper and crossmember used to connect this tube to the main frame rails, and that might be fine for towing a small trailer.

I still think the biggest concern with towing double trailers is not structural at all, but stability.

A discussion in another forum raised an interesting additional issue...
Even a small (half ton) trailer behind the 5.0TA will reduce braking performance and cause stability issues under braking unless that extra trailer is equipped with brakes. If they are surge brakes, you won't be able to manually apply them if required; if they are electric, how do you get them to be balanced with the Escape's brakes since they would be run from the same controller... or do you actually put two controllers in the truck? Commercial trucks with multiple trailers extend the air brake system through all trailers.
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Old 02-01-2016, 04:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I don't think the receiver tube is a concern at all - it's likely one of the standard tubes sold for custom receiver construction, and intended for use up to 10,000 pounds of trailer weight. The structural limitation will be the combination of bumper and crossmember used to connect this tube to the main frame rails, and that might be fine for towing a small trailer.

I still think the biggest concern with towing double trailers is not structural at all, but stability.

A discussion in another forum raised an interesting additional issue...
Even a small (half ton) trailer behind the 5.0TA will reduce braking performance and cause stability issues under braking unless that extra trailer is equipped with brakes. If they are surge brakes, you won't be able to manually apply them if required; if they are electric, how do you get them to be balanced with the Escape's brakes since they would be run from the same controller... or do you actually put two controllers in the truck? Commercial trucks with multiple trailers extend the air brake system through all trailers.
Brain B-P, you bring up a very good point about potential stability issues while braking. I'm very much hoping one of the folks that has actually towed (or attempted to tow) something behind their 5.0TA chimes in with some realworld handling observations.

-------------------------------

Since you seem well-versed on various towing topics, what's your opinion on the following:

Noticed the GVWR of the 5.0TA is 5500 lbs. Empty weight (axle and pin) is 3700 lbs. I realize the "empty" weight will probably increase when propane, batteries, and other optional equipment (i.e., a/c) are installed.

The tongue weight of any trailer connected to the 5.0TA's receiver must be subtracted from the 5.0TA's remaining cargo/payload capacity of 1800 lbs. Obviously this is not a concern.

However, IMO, there is the 5.0TA's GVWR that must be addressed which will indirectly reduce overall cargo capacity. In addition to the downward force of any cargo/payload on the 5.0TA's frame/suspension, there's also the fore/aft stress on the 5.0TA's frame by the 5.0TA (and its cargo/payload) coupled with the fore/aft stress induced by the gross weight of any trailer being towed behind the 5.0TA.

Assuming the above is correct, I'm deducting the loaded, gross weight of the 5.0TA itself (axle and pin weight combined) must remain at or below 4400 lbs. if towing an 1100 lb. trailer behind the 5.0TA (5500 - 1100 = 4400).

Is my logic sound?
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:18 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunBound View Post
The tongue weight of any trailer connected to the 5.0TA's receiver must be subtracted from the 5.0TA's remaining cargo/payload capacity of 1800 lbs. Obviously this is not a concern.
I agree that the extra trailer's tongue weight counts against the 5.0TA's GVWR and isn't a problem... and that this is the easy part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FunBound View Post
However, IMO, there is the 5.0TA's GVWR that must be addressed which will indirectly reduce overall cargo capacity. In addition to the downward force of any cargo/payload on the 5.0TA's frame/suspension, there's also the fore/aft stress on the 5.0TA's frame by the 5.0TA (and its cargo/payload) coupled with the fore/aft stress induced by the gross weight of any trailer being towed behind the 5.0TA.
This is like the tow vehicle: it has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) for itself and what it is carrying, and a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) for the combination of the tow vehicle and the trailer. Similarly, the trailer has a GVWR for itself and what is carrying; logically, it should also have something like a GCWR for the combination of the trailer (with cargo) and whatever it is towing. Of course the need for this sort of rating doesn't come up very often...

Components such as the suspension are not affected much by the attached trailer, but there are some that are part of that chain of components that take the load of the combination. In a motor vehicle the GCWR is limited primarily by the powertrain (engine, transmission, etc); for the leading trailer in a two-trailer combination that would be primarily the pin box (or coupler in a conventional trailer) and the frame parts which are stressed by the force/aft forces of towing (although lateral force at the hitch is also a potential concern). Fortunately the pin box of an Escape 5.0TA is rated far higher than required (16,000 pounds, because that's the lightest rating of conventional pin box). That leaves the part of the frame under the loft, the vertical part of the frame, and the rear hitch as the likely limiting links in the chain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FunBound View Post
Assuming the above is correct, I'm deducting the loaded, gross weight of the 5.0TA itself (axle and pin weight combined) must remain at or below 4400 lbs. if towing an 1100 lb. trailer behind the 5.0TA (5500 - 1100 = 4400).

Is my logic sound?
The "GCWR" could be as low as the GVWR (5500 lb for the 5.0TA), or as high as the pin box rating (16,000 lb)... or more likely somewhere in between.

I agree in general with the logic, and I think we can reasonably speculate about the factors affecting combination towing, but I also think Reace is only one who would know the appropriate rating for his design.
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:36 PM   #49
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I had ETI install my coupler. Tammy's father did it for me and he said that was the first one he had done - August, 2015.
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