More on TV Tires

[MrLynn]

I hijacked the Tow/Haul thread, because there were a few other Expedition owners, to ask about tires. But at the risk of repetition, I thought I'd expand it to everyone:

My General Grabber HTS 60 tires are six years old; only 37K on them, but tread is getting low, and with winter coming, I'm thinking of replacing them. The Generals seem OK; Tire Rack also suggests Continental Terrain/Contact H/T, Cooper Discoverer HT3, and Michelin Defender LTX M/S2, among others. Other sites tout more.

My Generals are 'Standard' load-rated, which I assume is 'D'. Most of the articles I have read on-line say that if you're towing trailers, to go for load-range 'E'. Our Escape 21C says it can weigh up to 5,000 lbs, which is not, by RV standards very high. Our 2013 Expedition EL XLT (5.4L, 6-speed auto, 4WD, factory-towing package) says it's good for up to 9,000. When I bought the Generals, we had an even lighter Casita to tow. Question: Is D OK, or should I spring for E?

Local mechanic can get whatever I want (there was a rebate on the Generals when I got them). Michelin Defenders seem to be getting highest ratings for all-round all-season tires. We don't really need off-road capability, so all-season radials for mostly highway use should be fine. Eastern MA roads are generally plowed, so full-winter tires are not really necessary—used to run snows on my van's rear tires in the winter, but these days just the all-seasons. Some of them are heavy-snow rated. We do get a lot of wet weather, so rain (and ice) performance is important. The Expy does have 4WD, though I rarely need it.

The Expedition is basically the same chassis as the equivalent F150, but with a heavier body. Thoughts/experience/recommendations/warnings welcome!

[Rossue]

I replaced my OEM Toyo Open Country tires at with the Continental Terrain Contact some 5K miles ago and like them. Had the Michelin Defender tires on the Yukon and had to have them replaced under warranty for excessive tire wear. Had to pay a pro-rated charge, and wasn't keen on paying a premium price again. The Conti's were $750 OTD after two $75 rebates from Continental. One was for getting their credit card used to buy the tires with.

[MrLynn]

Rossue, are the Contis load-range D, or E? If E, what tire pressures are you running? With the Generals (LR D), I have pumped them up to their max, 44 lbs.

[Rossue]

Not sure if D or E; would guess D. When towing I inflate them to 40 psi.

[Randy in Maine]

Basically if you are pulling a "bumper tow" trailer you are not really putting much additional payload onto the TV, so you are better off running a similar tire as what came with the TV when it was new and is listed on the drivers door jam. That being said you may want to increase the pressures in the tires a little but not a huge amount. Example my 2002 Tundra with a 1500 pound load capacity specs out a load index tire of at least 110. I run a 114 load index tire (Yokohama AT GO15 sized 265/75/16 SL tire) and pump them up to 36 front and 38 rear when pulling my 21NE even though the door jam says to run them at 26/30. YOu have to sort of play around with them a bit until you figure out what works best for your combo. Just my 2 cents.

[WillyB]

I'm having a similar debate in my head for my 2016 F150. So far, I've read many reviews, watch too many videos and talked to several shops only to get about a 50/50 response on Standard Load vs E-Load.

The main theme seems to be that E-Load will ride rougher. Most seem to run them around 40-45 lbs for non-towing and around 50-55 lbs when towing. The half who like them say the vehicle rides more stable and has less roll in the corners.The other half say they hate the ride.

My current stock tires are rated at 116 which have plenty of capacity for towing our 21C. They make the F150 ride very nice. I would probably go back with the same rated tire but I'm looking at the E-load tires for durability for dispersed camping areas/roads.

I'll keep watching this thread.

[Centex]

it seems to me that TV manufacturers put a high priority on quiet and comfort when selecting OE tires while also ensuring capacity to the max of the vehicle ratings.

I happen to put a high priority on quietness and comfort myself and the OE tires on my '22 F150 are very satisfactory in that regard (18" 'all terrain' Goodyear Wranglers).

They may not be the highest rated by some criteria but they're working well for me both wet and dry (I don't have to deal with snow / ice).

I think I'll be sticking with 'em when they need replacement - getting high miles out of tires isn't a priority for me.

YMMV.

[Tosh]

My '21 F-150 came with the Goodyear Wranglers, and they were fine when pulling the Escape 21NE.


In the interest of having a better winter tire, I changed to Falken Wildpeak AT3's, which are E rated. They are overkill for most of the driving I do, and reduced my MPG's by 10%.


Next spring I'll put the Wranglers back on.

[brroberts]

One thing to keep in mind is that even with the same tires, my mileage decreases in the winter on all 3 of my vehicles.

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by Centex

I happen to put a high priority on quietness and comfort myself and the OE tires on my '22 F150 are very satisfactory in that regard (18" 'all terrain' Goodyear Wranglers).

They may not be the highest rated by some criteria but they're working well for me both wet and dry (I don't have to deal with snow / ice).

I think I'll be sticking with 'em when they need replacement - getting high miles out of tires isn't a priority for me.

YMMV.

I'm in the same boat or truck as it were. I have been nothing but pleased with the Michelin Primacy XCs that came stock on our F150. They have great traction and are wearing well. I'll probably get another set through Costco when they are ready to be replaced.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Centex

it seems to me that TV manufacturers put a high priority on quiet and comfort when selecting OE tires while also ensuring capacity to the max of the vehicle ratings.

Another main consideration is MPG ratings and is why OEM tires are softer than the same make/model tire you would buy later from a tire store. OEM tires are formulated to have the least amount of rolling resistance to achieve better MPG & softer compounds in the tire help achieve this.

The worst example I experienced of this was on a new 2003 Sequoia. Those tires only lasted 23K miles before they were at 4/32.
https://www.carparts.com/blog/why-do...ar_Out_Quickly

[WillyB]

I will say the Goodyear Wrangler Fortitude HT's that came on my 2016 F150 have been great. They are a 65k mile tire and I have 58k on them with about a year left on the tread. For me, right now my priority feels more rock puncture focused vs smooth comfort.

[iamunique127]

I started using Michelin LTX AT, and then AT2, tires when I was doing a lot of hunting, fishing and rough country travel.

I've never had a flat with them and I find them very quiet, which is important to me. The LT rating is plenty capable for towing the 5.0TA and likely overkill.

I've been through 5 sets of those tires and personally got 100,000km and 125,000km on two different sets. They cost a fair amount but I find them very satisfactory for my purposes and long lasting.

There are better winter tires though and I noticed a big difference putting Nokian snow tires on for the winters.

I'll need a new set of tires in the spring for the TV so I'm following this thread, and others, carefully.

[MrLynn]

Given my needs (mostly highway all-season plus Escape towing) and given the positive comments here (and elsewhere), I'm leaning toward replacing my Generals (which have been OK—no problems) with the Michelin Defenders LTX M/S 2.

The Michelins don't have the 3-peak snow symbol, which some recommend, but are reputed to do very well on wet, icy, and light snow surfaces. Interestingly, they are XL, not SL, which I gather means thicker sidewalls (good for towing), similar to E-range. They seem to offer BOTH Load Range 116 (XL) and 123 (XL). Most of the others in my size (275/65R18) and Load Range 116 are SL. The Michelin116 (XL) is probably good enough for my relatively light trailer, and the XL rating would be an upgrade from my Generals. The only caveat is the high price. . .

[sherminator]

MrLynn - I have a 2017 Expedition XLT and am looking at replacing my tires soon, too. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Michelin LTX A/T2 in the 114T SL load range, because they have the best wet stopping distance I can find, especially over time. The heavier load range has longer stopping distances, and that is paramount for me in the continually wet PNW, despite the higher initial cost and shorter tread life. The tires I have on presently (Wrangler Fortitudes) are also 114T SL tires and have done fine in handling my 21NE that usually is loaded to around 4500lbs.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by sherminator

MrLynn - I have a 2017 Expedition XLT and am looking at replacing my tires soon, too. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Michelin LTX A/T2 in the 114T SL load range, because they have the best wet stopping distance I can find, especially over time. The heavier load range has longer stopping distances, and that is paramount for me in the continually wet PNW, despite the higher initial cost and shorter tread life. The tires I have on presently (Wrangler Fortitudes) are also 114T SL tires and have done fine in handling my 21NE that usually is loaded to around 4500lbs.

I notice you specify A/T2 (=all-terrain?) rather than the M/S2 (mud/snow), the former with more rugged tread than the 'highway' tread on the M/Ss. How those different tread types affect wet-stopping distance, I have no idea. Are there reviews that compare the different models, taking into account all the variables (tread, load-rating, etc.)?

[sherminator]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

I notice you specify A/T2 (=all-terrain?) rather than the M/S2 (mud/snow), the former with more rugged tread than the 'highway' tread on the M/Ss. How those different tread types affect wet-stopping distance, I have no idea. Are there reviews that compare the different models, taking into account all the variables (tread, load-rating, etc.)?

Discount Tire's Treadwell tool has this information on some of their offerings - Michelin tires are covered pretty well, but some other brands less so. Here are screen shots of the tires we discussed. The full reports mention the highest rated tire in the same class (or the 2nd if the chosen tire is 1st, as well as other information, such as a general winter performance rating.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Given my needs (mostly highway all-season plus Escape towing) and given the positive comments here (and elsewhere), I'm leaning toward replacing my Generals (which have been OK—no problems) with the Michelin Defenders LTX M/S 2.

The Michelins don't have the 3-peak snow symbol, which some recommend, but are reputed to do very well on wet, icy, and light snow surfaces. Interestingly, they are XL, not SL, which I gather means thicker sidewalls (good for towing), similar to E-range. They seem to offer BOTH Load Range 116 (XL) and 123 (XL). Most of the others in my size (275/65R18) and Load Range 116 are SL. The Michelin116 (XL) is probably good enough for my relatively light trailer, and the XL rating would be an upgrade from my Generals. The only caveat is the high price. . .

On 'passenger car' tires, SL is standard load, XL is extra load. LT as a prefix means a light truck tire, and those come in load ranges B, C, D, E. The actual difference in the tires is the max inflation pressure, as heavier loads require more air pressure, you should stick with the air pressure recommended by the vehicle maker for the size tire you're running. For example, my Expedition, with 275/65R18, specifies 35 PSI on all 4, and I will indeed run 35 PSI even if I end up with LT range "E" tires on it which have a max pressure of 80 PSI instead of the factory tires, which are max 50 PSI.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

On 'passenger car' tires, SL is standard load, XL is extra load. LT as a prefix means a light truck tire, and those come in load ranges B, C, D, E. The actual difference in the tires is the max inflation pressure, as heavier loads require more air pressure, you should stick with the air pressure recommended by the vehicle maker for the size tire you're running. For example, my Expedition, with 275/65R18, specifies 35 PSI on all 4, and I will indeed run 35 PSI even if I end up with LT range "E" tires on it which have a max pressure of 80 PSI instead of the factory tires, which are max 50 PSI.

My impression, John, is that the SL/XL designation is superceding the A-E system. My Generals are LT tires, but SL. The Michelin 'LTX' label is for Light Truck tires, which use both SL and XL, sometimes 'XL(E)'. 'XL' seems more like D-rated, as the max pressure on some is 50 psi, not 80. But I have read that the XL does mean stiffer sidewalls, which is better for towing. FWIW, the max pressure on my General SL tires is 44 psi. Go figure.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

My impression, John, is that the SL/XL designation is superceding the A-E system. My Generals are LT tires, but SL. The Michelin 'LTX' label is for Light Truck tires, which use both SL and XL, sometimes 'XL(E)'. 'XL' seems more like D-rated, as the max pressure on some is 50 psi, not 80. But I have read that the XL does mean stiffer sidewalls, which is better for towing. FWIW, the max pressure on my General SL tires is 44 psi. Go figure.

the specific pressures and payloads depend on the tire size, taller sidewall tires generally need less pressure for the same payload.

I've never seen SL used on a LTxxx/yyRzz tire size, just on regular passenger tires. Michelin LTX is just a model family brand designation. I had Michelin LTX highway tires on my Econoline E150 van 20 years ago. Back then, you could get that size in 235/75R15 XL or LT235/75R15 "C", both max 50 PSI.