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09-21-2017, 08:37 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,111
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Sway control anyone?
Check out this video. Rare for something like this to be caught on camera.
Overturned camper slows traffic on Garden State Parkway
Glad no one was hurt. That is a very busy road on any given day. What can we learn from this? Proper loading and hitch set up would probably prevent this to begin with, but if sway starts I suppose I would let of the gas and gently initiate the trailer brakes with the manual lever on the brake controller.
Also a good reminder why no one should ever ride in a travel trailer.
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09-21-2017, 02:04 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Although most crashes are not caught on video, that's changing as dashcams become more common. There are lots of videos trailer crashes involving sway, and I have noticed some patterns: - tandem-axle trailers are supposed to improve stability, but almost all of these videos show tandem-axle trailers swaying to destruction (including this one)
- large and truck-based tow vehicles are supposed to be safe, but almost all of these videos show large tugs (this one is Ford Expedition, based on the same platform as the F-150)
- various bits of hitch hardware are supposed to required for safety, but most all of these videos show piles of WD spring bars and other hardware being used... although many videos have too little resolution to make the setup clear (I can't see what's on this rig, but it's hard to imagine that size of trailer on a Expedition without WD)
It's not enough to just have the truck and the hardware. They must be used properly - the "proper loading and hitch set up" which Dave mentioned - and the trailer must still be within the limits of the tow vehicle and equipment.
I also noticed that the propane tanks which some people seem to believe will surely blow up and kill us all if there is any incident are actually flopping around on their hoses (because most propane tank holders are junk, although we don't know if these specific ones were even clamped down) and there is no explosion, or even fire. These are even the larger and heavier 30-pound size, not the 20-pound size we have on our trailers.
I'm a little surprised that the tug didn't get turned over by the trailer. Couplers won't roll 90 degrees without binding, so this hitch, coupler, or tongue must have broken (or possibly just twisted somewhere). WD hardware restricts motion even more, likely causing some tow vehicles to roll when the trailer falls over.
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09-21-2017, 02:17 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,111
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This video is a little longer and shows the sway start and get worse. Way too light on the tongue?
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=26&v=v74hW8xE1-8
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09-21-2017, 02:43 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
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That's better editing - you can see the sway start, and how quickly it builds. The image is also much more clear, although I still can't pick out the WD hardware.
It is interesting that the sway does not seem to be initiated by a sudden movement (such as a lane change), or by wind and a large object passing or being passed. This thing must have had really marginal stability at that speed.
I don't see the brakes go on. I wonder if the driver was attempting to control the sway by applying power, or by just steering.
In the sheer speculation category...
The trailer appears to have two waste tanks behind the axle; I wonder if they were both full?
The camera car driver did a good job of staying out of the event, but I would have backed off even further if I saw even the beginning of that sway.
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09-21-2017, 02:49 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ..., New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Esc19/'14 Silvrado
Posts: 4,193
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My money's on two causes: excess speed and driver stupidity.
__________________
Myron
"A billion here, a billion there...add it all up and before you know it you're talking real money." Everett Dirkson
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09-21-2017, 03:00 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
It is interesting that the sway does not seem to be initiated by a sudden movement (such as a lane change), or by wind and a large object passing or being passed. This thing must have had really marginal stability at that speed.
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If you can believe the youtube comments it appears someone connected to the family posted that a tire blew. Hard to tell from the video but maybe on the passenger side of the truck?
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09-21-2017, 03:25 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL
My money's on two causes: excess speed and driver stupidity.
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X2. And I don't even watch the videos. With regard to trailers, bad loading has to be very high up. Some people think that they can load ridiculous amounts and all in the wrong place.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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09-21-2017, 04:50 PM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
If you can believe the youtube comments it appears someone connected to the family posted that a tire blew. Hard to tell from the video but maybe on the passenger side of the truck?
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Saw no evidence of a blown tire, but I doubt that would have caused it anyway. The sway simply increased more and more, while the driver apparently attempted to keep the same speed or higher throughout. Improper loading (low tongue weight) seems to me a more likely culprit than a tire.
Hard to understand why the driver didn't simply slow down and manually apply the trailer brakes the moment the sway started, but perhaps he hadn't towed before and didn't know how.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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09-21-2017, 05:13 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Olympia wa, Washington
Trailer: 5.0TA 2017
Posts: 2,255
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i once towed a horse trailer with a TV that was not appropriate it wasn't my rig and i was helping someone (i was very green about towing and trusted my friend) no control at speeds over 45 lots of sway. i just slowed way down and told her to sell her TV and never tow with it again! it was double axle horse trailer with equalizing bars and trailer brakes but that couldn't make up for a under powered /under weight /under wheel base improper TV. To be specific a bronco and a three horse trailer- scary but luckily we were not going far.
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09-21-2017, 06:06 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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When you apply the brake controller manually, do the brake lights come on?
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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09-21-2017, 06:13 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: West Coast, Florida
Trailer: None now
Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
When you apply the brake controller manually, do the brake lights come on?
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On our P3 they do, truck and trailer both light up
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09-21-2017, 06:36 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
If you can believe the youtube comments it appears someone connected to the family posted that a tire blew. Hard to tell from the video but maybe on the passenger side of the truck?
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Interesting. I didn't notice any destroyed tires on either the tug or the trailer, but I wasn't looking for them and it might not be visible.
A bad tire on the tug would not likely cause the sway, anyway.
It's also possible that it was entirely operator error, and a family member decided to blame it on a tire that went flat due to sliding sideways on the road at high speed.
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09-21-2017, 06:36 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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My P2 setup instructions warn that the trailer brake lights will not come on when the manual lever is applied, which is why setup should be done on a deserted road.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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09-21-2017, 06:39 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
When you apply the brake controller manually, do the brake lights come on?
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Ideally, yes. With factory integrated controllers this should work. With aftermarket controllers, the only connection of the controller to the stop lamp circuit is through the switch on the brake pedal. If the wrong brake pedal switch connection is used, the controller applying power to it may not turn the tug's lights on, and of course then it wouldn't turn the trailer's lights on; of course if the controller is not designed to turn the lights on, it won't.
It is possible that the driver manually applied the trailer brakes, and we just don't see it... and it wasn't effective.
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09-21-2017, 06:44 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
Hard to understand why the driver didn't simply slow down and manually apply the trailer brakes the moment the sway started, but perhaps he hadn't towed before and didn't know how.
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It's also possible that the driver read one of the many online recommendations to not slow down until the sway was under control, and/or that the driver could not reach the control lever while trying to drive.
Not knowing how to control sway doesn't suggest a lack of towing experience to me... just a lack of trailer swaying experience. I've only had a trailer sway once (not my trailer, not loaded by me, but improperly loaded) and that one didn't have brakes... so I've never had an opportunity to practice sway control by trailer braking.
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09-21-2017, 06:47 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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I watched the high-definition and longer version of the video again, paying attention to the tires. There's a good view of all trailer tires as the sway starts, and good views of all tires on each side as the rig covers three lanes. None of those tires "blew", and none even looked like they were at low pressure. So much for that excuse...
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09-21-2017, 06:48 PM
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#17
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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That's true enough. Most folks who tow have no experience controlling sway unless they've encountered it before. But I would think some common sense applies here, and first instinct would be slow down. It's also possible they had no trailer brakes, but that omission would be downright incompetence or ignorance or both with such a large trailer.
Having said all that, it's something I'll never be able to test with my current setup, since I can't make it sway even if I wanted to.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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09-21-2017, 07:15 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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And then there is this scenario.
I was driving too fast for conditions ( gravel road with occasional washboard ) towing my tent trailer with my Subaru wagon.
Coming around a bend in the road, I noticed that the tent trailer was overtaking me. I did not slow down. I hit the gas, and the front-wheel-drive Subaru pulled ahead of the trailer. If I had slowed, the trailer would have passed me.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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09-21-2017, 07:28 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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The first instinct is indeed to slow down and people will wrongly hit the tug brakes.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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09-22-2017, 04:21 PM
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#20
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by float5
The first instinct is indeed to slow down and people will wrongly hit the tug brakes.
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That's true. I'm talking about foot off the gas, and apply the trailer brakes manually. In any case, none of that happened here.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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