Towing a 21 with the Tundra 4.6L V-8

[cpaharley2008]

I added Firestone AirBags to my Ram 1500 to eliminate any sag, even 1-2" will impact your headlights. A Sherline tongue scale is recommended for fine tuning your front weight as well as getting the entire unit weighed.

[Kountrykamper]

Originally Posted by richardr

On our 4Runner I installed Timbren rear end rubber suspension enhancements to reduce the back end sag with the 420 lbs of our Casita hitch. Our Casita hitch is heavy because I carry a Honda 2000i generator on a metal box over the propane tanks. This probably adds 100lbs hitch weight. I'm planning on putting the same generator and metal box over the propane tanks on the Escape 21.
I'm wondering about the need for rear end suspension enhancements on the Tundra (without TRD). Does anyone add Timbren or some other suspension enhancement to their Tundra?

I use a Equalizer WDH on my Tundra with our 19'. I dont put a lot of tension on it because we travel light but it helps pick the rear end up a little and I like the ride better than without the WDH.

[fudge_brownie]

I have had two Sequoia's, the latest one has the air bag in the rear springs. The one without the air bag suffered sag, even with an Andersen WDH. I always felt the headlights were a bit high. The rear sag was not bad but noticeable.

Now, with the air bags and about 9 psi I get a very level ride, I have take the WDH out of the mix in the process and am very happy with the handling. There is a difference without the WDH, that one with the car feeling. A tightness between tow and trailer. It felt good, not sure if it did any good. Some do not like that feel. Now after 2,000 miles I think I will remove the Andersen brackets from the tongue.

[Jake930]

Originally Posted by richardr

On our 4Runner I installed Timbren rear end rubber suspension enhancements to reduce the back end sag with the 420 lbs of our Casita hitch. Our Casita hitch is heavy because I carry a Honda 2000i generator on a metal box over the propane tanks. This probably adds 100lbs hitch weight. I'm planning on putting the same generator and metal box over the propane tanks on the Escape 21.
I'm wondering about the need for rear end suspension enhancements on the Tundra (without TRD). Does anyone add Timbren or some other suspension enhancement to their Tundra?

I'm going to have Sumosprings put on my Tundra before out frist outing this spring. Hope i will be able to get rid of my WDH. Not that it that hard to hitch up, but just one more thing i do not have to mess with.

[fudge_brownie]

I thought the Andersen was a great WDH but a PITA to mess with. It was all about alignment of vehicle and tow, getting it replicated to the same angle when hooking up.

No WDH does eliminate a lot of hassle.

[richardr]

Originally Posted by Jake930

I'm going to have Sumosprings put on my Tundra before out frist outing this spring. Hope i will be able to get rid of my WDH. Not that it that hard to hitch up, but just one more thing i do not have to mess with.

I'm not planning on towing with a WDH, so I am very interested in how the Sumosprings work on your Tundra.

[richardr]

Originally Posted by Don W.

I have the Same Tundra. I did get the slip on Tow mirrors after a few trips. With those I can see extremely well. I have the back up camera too but only use it when backing into my campsite.

The slip on mirrors give that extra view on sides back to the bumper and make me feel more comfortable and were much cheaper than replacing the stock mirrors with toyota tow mirrors.

We are debating getting these towing mirrors for our Tundra from etrailer. They are electrically heated with a turn signal, but are about $350. The slip on mirrors would be a less expensive option. What slip on mirrors did you buy?

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by richardr

I'm not planning on towing with a WDH, so I am very interested in how the Sumosprings work on your Tundra.

I've have had them on my 2016 Tacoma for the last 7500 miles, including some off roading without the trailer & have had no problems. Without the trailer they have no effect on the ride, with it there is less rear end droop, and a slightly stiffer ride. I prefer them to the air bags I used on the RAV4...

[richardr]

Jon,
Thanks for the Sumospring endorsement. It sounds like they work better than the Timbren suspension enhancements I used on my 4Runner.

[craiginpetaluma]

Originally Posted by richardr

Jon,
Thanks for the Sumospring endorsement. It sounds like they work better than the Timbren suspension enhancements I used on my 4Runner.

I installed the Sumosprings on my 2002 Tundra to tow my 21'. I could not be happier. The Timbrens were 6000 lb rated and the Sumos were much less, so I went with the Sumos. Before the Sumos on stock suspension I had a 4 1/2 inch drop when hooking up the trailer, now only one inch which puts my truck level.
My sumos almost touch the frame so with any load they are engaging, and does not affect the unloaded ride. I've never used a WDH so I have nothing to compare and right now I'm happy with the set up.

[yxan]

As I am getting closer to make the drive to get my trailer I am getting more fine tuned on what to do with truck, how bad does the Tundra 2014+ sag from an escape trailer? 400 ish tongue weight cant possibly create the bulldog stance can it? and if so WDH to the rescue?

for all the peeps doing bumper stop mods and airbags, here is a great video showing the math of said choices. It seems to me a WDH is the way to go on a truck.
https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by yxan

...for all the peeps doing bumper stop mods and airbags, here is a great video showing the math of said choices. It seems to me a WDH is the way to go on a truck.

They do different things. The airbags and springs do help with stance, but do nothing in terms of distributing weight, nor do they affect any capacities. Our truck benefits from the WDH, and having towed both with and without it, we prefer using it. A much better towing experience, with better handling.



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[Bobbito]

Thank you Daniel for posting the great video. When my 2005 Tundra is loaded with all our fishing gear, motors, boat, canopy, plus our Escape on the tongue, our back axle is pretty well at its weight limit. Without our WDH it would definitely be overloaded. I've tried towing without the WDH for short drives and it isn't bad unless the road has bumps (porpoises) or there are strong crosswinds.
Bob K


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[richardr]

Originally Posted by yxan

As I am getting closer to make the drive to get my trailer I am getting more fine tuned on what to do with truck, how bad does the Tundra 2014+ sag from an escape trailer? 400 ish tongue weight cant possibly create the bulldog stance can it? and if so WDH to the rescue?

for all the peeps doing bumper stop mods and airbags, here is a great video showing the math of said choices. It seems to me a WDH is the way to go on a truck.
https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

I towed our Casita 17FD with our Tundra to the dump station. The hitch weight is over 430 lbs. We had a full black water tank and generator on the front and no bicycles on the back. Our Tundra rear end dropped 2 inches. Once hitched, the Tundra forward and rear wheel well tops were the same distance above the tires. We use a regular hitch and no suspension enhancements on the Tundra. The Tundra bed was empty.

[richardr]

We installed a Leer cab over and SuperSprings on our Tundra. With the bed unloaded the rear end runs about an inch higher than without the SuperSprings. With the rear end loaded and trailer hitched up, the rear end is about the same as it was unloaded without Supersprings. SuperSprings are an additional leaf spring and made by the same company that makes SumoSprings.

Slightly different subject:
I found that while towing, in the Tow/Haul mode, my transmission shifts down to 5th gear when driving over every freeway overpass. I tried placing the transmission in S5 and found that at 60mph it runs at about 2000rpm instead of 1600 and only on a significant hill will it down shift. I think that in S5 my mileage may be hurt a little, but there will be less stress and temp buildup in the transmission. I'm interested in what others think of towing in S5 instead of D.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by richardr

I found that while towing, in the Tow/Haul mode, my transmission shifts down to 5th gear when driving over every freeway overpass. I tried placing the transmission in S5 and found that at 60mph it runs at about 2000rpm instead of 1600 and only on a significant hill will it down shift. I think that in S5 my mileage may be hurt a little, but there will be less stress and temp buildup in the transmission. I'm interested in what others think of towing in S5 instead of D.

It appears, from a reading of the Tundra owner's manual, that the "S" shift positions are like the traditional lower positions for an automatic transmission: they do not directly control the gear ratio used, but they do

• limit the transmission so it will not use a higher gear (unless necessary to avoid over-revving the engine), and
• change the shift behaviour.

Toyota probably would have simply used the old P-R-N-D-L scheme instead of the "S" modes, except that with a six-speed this gets silly and harder to use than the +/- scheme... "P-R-N-D-5-4-3-2-L"?

The general transmission operation section doesn't seem to advise against using S5 if that's what gives you the performance that you want. Avoiding excessive shifting is a normal reason to manually select a lower position. In the towing section, I didn't see any recommendation regarding using "D" or the "S" mode.

Keeping engine speed higher than the vehicle would choose for itself will consume more fuel, but it might not be bad.

What effect there will be on transmission temperature is completely unknown, without knowing and understanding the details of the internal design. What we do know is that neither 5th nor 6th gears are direct so the power flow is through at least one gearset; I'm also sure that the torque converter will be locked up under at least some conditions in both of these gears. If fluid temperature is a concern, I suggest setting up a monitor to see the effect directly.

[richardr]

Brian, Thanks for the additional information and thoughtful discussion.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by yxan

As I am getting closer to make the drive to get my trailer I am getting more fine tuned on what to do with truck, how bad does the Tundra 2014+ sag from an escape trailer? 400 ish tongue weight cant possibly create the bulldog stance can it? and if so WDH to the rescue?

for all the peeps doing bumper stop mods and airbags, here is a great video showing the math of said choices. It seems to me a WDH is the way to go on a truck.
https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

It is very refreshing to see some science and engineering applied to this question. I suggest you start a new thread showing this video as it may be missed by many in this one specific to Tundras.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

... If fluid temperature is a concern, I suggest setting up a monitor to see the effect directly.

I'm not sure what all years or models have it, but our 2016 F-150 XLT includes a transmission temperature gauge in the dashboard instrument cluster (far right of the four small gauges).

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I'm not sure what all years or models have it, but our 2016 F-150 XLT includes a transmission temperature gauge in the dashboard instrument cluster (far right of the four small gauges).

The computer on my 2014 Ram has a readout showing transmission ,oil and coolant temperature . Without knowing the acceptable design temperatures for each renders those numbers meaning less. The transmission temperature in my 2014 Ram run much higher than the temps in my old 2000 GMC.
Is my Ram running too hot or is it running at where it is supposed to run ? I assume that Ram has figured this all out otherwise they wouldn't warranty the drive train for 100,000 miles.