what gas engine? 2020 F350: 6.2 Gas or 7.3 L Gas? - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 02-11-2019, 12:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKCamper View Post
i second that, I was a Ford mechanic for eighteen years and it sometimes took several years to get the bugs out.

I can’t imagine you needing more than a properly equipped F 350 SRW for a pop up camper. You said it could weigh up tp 3,000 lbs. wet. Well, a lot of campers hauled on 350’s weigh that much dry. I think the inconvenience of DRW loading, parking, and general maneuvering would only be worth it if you were hauling a tank of a camper. Weighing 4,000 lbs. in fact look at the Lance camper website and you can punch in different trucks and see what weight campers they suggest.
My very experienced and honest mechanic has always encouraged me to NEVER buy the first year (or even 2 years!) of a new model (redesign) or engine, for exactly the reasons you list above. Thanks for the reminder.

I have posted my question on quite a few forums, and the overwhelming majority of people all said basically the same thing.... buy the tried and true 6.2 (gas) if I am going to buy a gasser. (we are) and the tried and true 6 speed transmission.... especially if it is a purchase and we plan on keeping it a long time (we do)

Also many people have mentioned that the 6.2 L gasser will have plenty of grunt for our needs. Good to know.

We will not do tons of miles annually (not full timing) so fuel economy isn't a huge factor, either way.

thanks everyone for the great thoughts.

J
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
I have posted my question on quite a few forums, and the overwhelming majority of people all said basically the same thing.... buy the tried and true 6.2 (gas) if I am going to buy a gasser. (we are) and the tried and true 6 speed transmission.... especially if it is a purchase and we plan on keeping it a long time (we do)J
I don't completely agree with the old-transmission logic: the new one isn't really first-year since it's just a stronger version of the current (proven for three years before you would buy one) 10-speed, and since the 6-speed is already obsolete (GM and Ram have used 8-speeds in their pickups since 2014 and 2013) it's going to seem really obsolete when the truck is a few years old. I suppose they're both sound choices, for different reasons.

At least you don't have to decide on manual versus automatic... since that choice isn't offered any more!
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:31 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I don't completely agree with the old-transmission logic: the new one isn't really first-year since it's just a stronger version of the current (proven for three years before you would buy one) 10-speed, and since the 6-speed is already obsolete (GM and Ram have used 8-speeds in their pickups since 2014 and 2013) it's going to seem really obsolete when the truck is a few years old. I suppose they're both sound choices, for different reasons.

At least you don't have to decide on manual versus automatic... since that choice isn't offered any more!
Ford is calling the 10 speed transmission "all new" and from what info I have seen on the internet... it really is 'all new'.

the quote is here:

https://autoweek.com/article/trucks/...er-73-liter-v8



and not sure how a transmission is 'obsolete' if they are still making and selling it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Well, Load Range E and 10-ply "rating"... which mean the same thing. Since that means 80 PSI maximum inflation - which can be brutal for ride comfort and bad for traction (especially off-highway) - and they need it to match the GAWR, I hope you won't need the full GAWR so they don't need maximum inflation.
Thanks for the thoughts... appreciated.

The good news is.... as per the info listed here:
https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/models/f350-xlt/

it indicates we wont be anywhere near the GAWR.

and I quote -

Maximum Payload Package Selector (lbs.) F-350 SRW 4X4 - - the most possible payload is 4,450 lbs with total of 11,500 GVWR (lbs) …. under build to order (we would do this)

yes I know that payload includes gas (about 300 lbs for a full 48 gallon tank, on the biggest F350 we'd get) other fluids, passengers, snacks, etc etc)

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
Ford is calling the 10 speed transmission "all new" and from what info I have seen on the internet... it really is 'all new'.

the quote is here:

https://autoweek.com/article/trucks/...er-73-liter-v8)
"All new" is an automotive marketing phrase which now means "looks different enough that many people won't recognize that it's almost entirely the same as last year".

That's a quote from a Ford rep, pushing their product, not an informed comment about the actual design. Since the higher-capacity version will have many different parts (possibly longer case of the same design, wider gears in exactly the same configuration, clutches and brakes with more plates but otherwise identical, etc) they can get away with the "all new" phrase.

The 10R140 is being built by the same people and with the same equipment as the 10R80 (as announced by Ford). Logically, no manufacturer would start again on a fresh design for another transmission of the same type (planetary geared automatic with torque converter), with the same number of ratios, to be built at the same time, and built in the same factory, as an existing transmission.

By the way, it looks like GM will be building the same transmission (in their own factory), branding it "Allison" for marketing, and putting it in the 2020 Silverado 2500/3500 HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
... and not sure how a transmission is 'obsolete' if they are still making and selling it.
Well, not exactly obsolete, but a generation or two behind industry practice. It will still be functional and well-supported, of course.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:04 PM   #16
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The person I quoted on the web link is not simply a "rep" - it is "Mike Pruitt, chief engineer of the Ford Super Duty lineup."

I think an engineer would not like being called a "rep" and I would hope he would be somewhat informed, as an engineer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
"All new" is an automotive marketing phrase which now means "looks different enough that many people won't recognize that it's almost entirely the same as last year".

That's a quote from a Ford rep, pushing their product, not an informed comment about the actual design. Since the higher-capacity version will have many different parts (possibly longer case of the same design, wider gears in exactly the same configuration, clutches and brakes with more plates but otherwise identical, etc) they can get away with the "all new" phrase.

The 10R140 is being built by the same people and with the same equipment as the 10R80 (as announced by Ford). Logically, no manufacturer would start again on a fresh design for another transmission of the same type (planetary geared automatic with torque converter), with the same number of ratios, to be built at the same time, and built in the same factory, as an existing transmission.

By the way, it looks like GM will be building the same transmission (in their own factory), branding it "Allison" for marketing, and putting it in the 2020 Silverado 2500/3500 HD.


Well, not exactly obsolete, but a generation or two behind industry practice. It will still be functional and well-supported, of course.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
The person I quoted on the web link is not simply a "rep" - it is "Mike Pruitt, chief engineer of the Ford Super Duty lineup."

I think an engineer would not like being called a "rep" and I would hope he would be somewhat informed, as an engineer.
I didn't say "sales rep"; I just meant that he was representing Ford (as is everyone from a customer service person on the phone to the CEO in an interview), and thus using the approved corporate terminology. I'm sure that he understands the design well, approved the use of this transmission (which comes from another Ford division), knows lots about the production of the component (cost, production capacity, inter-dependence with other component production, installation requirements...) and so is well aware that this transmission is no more "all new" than the rest of the truck.

But who knows - maybe it is all-new... there's no rule that says that manufacturers must only make rational decisions.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:23 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I didn't say "sales rep"; I just meant that he was representing Ford (as is everyone from a customer service person on the phone to the CEO in an interview), and thus using the approved corporate terminology. I'm sure that he understands the design well, approved the use of this transmission (which comes from another Ford division), knows lots about the production of the component (cost, production capacity, inter-dependence with other component production, installation requirements...) and so is well aware that this transmission is no more "all new" than the rest of the truck.
I never said you said "sales rep" Brian, if you want to get pedantic.

I just quoted you. "rep" ie representative.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:09 PM   #19
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Now for the person in charge of Ford's 10-speed transmissions (as reported in 2020 Ford Super Duty debuts all-new 7.3-liter pushrod V8, 10-speed automatic from SAE):
Quote:
A new 10R140 TorqShift 10-speed automatic replaces the Super Duty’s six-speed automatic transmission, and can be paired with all three engine offerings. Packaged in the same space as the 6-speed, the 10-speed weighs only 3.5 lb (1.6 kg) more. Next-generation software and controls are similar to those in light-duty F-150’s 10R80 transmission. “With the new controls, the shifting is faster, more accurate, and smoother,” said Greg Stout, the automaker’s 10-speed transmission systems manager.

The 10-speed transmission was custom-designed to match the Super Duty engines. “It shares the same basic architecture of the F-150’s 10-speed transmission, so it has the same number and arrangement of clutches and planetary sets,” said Stout. All the 10R140’s drive hardware is beefier than in the 10R80, with the two transmissions sharing only 7% of components. “And that 7% represents mostly small fasteners, springs, valves, and other parts inside the hydraulic control that are independent of the load the transmission carries,” Stout said.
So... same design, stronger components, as expected. Of course, with so many new components, they might undersize or otherwise mess some of them up, so there is still a new-product risk.

Manufacturers get a lot of flak from the public for doing what some people think are incompetent things. I think that when design and production decisions are examined in more detail, they make a lot of sense and reflect an astounding amount of expertise and effort.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:49 AM   #20
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those ford 10 speeds sure look interesting. they /only/ use the torque converter to start from a stop, then they lock up, and stay locked up through all 10 closely spaced gears. the top three gears are overdrive ratios (>1.0). the overall gear range from 1 to 10 is no wider than 4-speeds were 15 years ago. let off on the throttle down a grade, and they downshift to provide engine braking. apply the brake, they downshift more.
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