Frame width on 21 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 02-24-2019, 07:31 PM   #1
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Frame width on 21

Does anyone happen to know (or can they measure) the frame width inside rail to inside rail on a newer (Gen 2) 21? Looking at the BAL Retract-A-Spare product and wondering if it will work for relocating a tire from the back to underneath. Frame width needs to be in the 52-72” range. This needs to be done to locate a mini-split heat pump condenser on the rear. Any other thoughts on tire relocation and method is welcome.

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Old 02-24-2019, 08:01 PM   #2
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I think Mr. Bennett did what you are thinking about awhile back.
Or was discussing it
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:26 PM   #3
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Jim described his spare tire relocation in 5.0TA Cargo Box. Although the 5.0TA and 21' have different frame rail sizes, they are otherwise the same behind the tongue, so the inner spacing should only be an inch or two different between the models.

He used a Lippert winch, rather than the BAL winch. In his case, half of the winch body plus a 21 3/4" extension and a ratcheting box end wrench was very close to half of the frame rail inside spacing (assuming that Jim centred the tire), so it seems unlikely that the frame rail spacing is as much as 52"... but maybe.

If the frame rail spacing isn't wide enough, the BAL carrier could probably be shortened by cutting one or both of the channels.

There are also swinging and telescoping carriers commercially available, and either style could be custom-built if desired to work better with the dimensions and configuration of the Escape frame and body.
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:40 PM   #4
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Under the tongue would off set the weight...post 222
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:33 PM   #5
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Under the tongue would off set the weight...post 222
Modifications to Eggscape
Ed: Great idea except the owner I am working with has the front storage box as well as the standard dual 20# propane rack. This would make installation of something much more problematic under the A-frame.
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Old 02-25-2019, 01:13 PM   #6
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Once the batteries and tanks with cover are in place I can’t see the tire...so it would be similar to having the box. It is all done from the underside as would most under mounts however physically closer.
I always thought having the box would make it easy to attach the bolt. Use a piece of 3/4 plywood in the bottom of the box to span to where there are supports...then a carriage bolt down through the plywood. You could also use threaded rod with nuts on both sides.
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:00 PM   #7
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I reread the spare tire post and maybe I missed it. What is the clearance from the bottom of the tire to the street when you mount under the tongue??
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:36 PM   #8
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What is the clearance from the bottom of the tire to the street when you mount under the tongue??
The top of the coupler is the top of the ball, and essentially flush with the top of the tongue frame. The tire can fit between the frame rails in the tongue area, so the top of the tire is flush with the top of the frame (if you don't have the Escape factory optional storage box). The tire is essentially 8" wide, which is wider than the frame rail is tall, so the tire hangs below the frame and the bottom face of the tire ends up 8" below the top of the ball, so ground clearance is top-of-ball height minus 8".

If the top-of-ball height is 19" (for instance), then the clearance under the tire is a bit less than 11".
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:40 PM   #9
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Under the tongue would off set the weight...post 222
Modifications to Eggscape
The page link doesn't get to the right page of the thread for a user which has the posts-per-page preference set to anything other than the default (10)... so this links directly to the relevant post:
Modifications to Eggscape, post #222: Tongue work done on Eggscape
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
Ed: Great idea except the owner I am working with has the front storage box as well as the standard dual 20# propane rack. This would make installation of something much more problematic under the A-frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggscape View Post
Once the batteries and tanks with cover are in place I can’t see the tire...so it would be similar to having the box. It is all done from the underside as would most under mounts however physically closer.
I always thought having the box would make it easy to attach the bolt. Use a piece of 3/4 plywood in the bottom of the box to span to where there are supports...then a carriage bolt down through the plywood.
Unless the design has changed, the factory optional front storage box is not flat, but formed to fit over the frame rails, dropping down on each side. Does the bottom of the box drop down below the top of the frame between the frame rails? That would force the tire to be mounted lower.

If the shape of the bottom of the box works, the box could be a good combination with a winch, since the winch could be inside the box (with a shaft sticking out the side of the box?) and protected from elements.

With a lot of stuff on the tongue, one might not want the tire mass there as well; in this respect, further back under the body would be more desirable. Since against the trailer floor and this position under the tongue are the same height, the further back the tire is place, the less problem there is with ground clearance... because clearance is only an issue when a dip in the road causes the hitch to get closer to the ground while the distance from frame to ground near the suspension stays approximately constant.
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:27 PM   #11
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With a lot of stuff on the tongue, one might not want the tire mass there as well; in this respect, further back under the body would be more desirable. Since against the trailer floor and this position under the tongue are the same height, the further back the tire is place, the less problem there is with ground clearance... because clearance is only an issue when a dip in the road causes the hitch to get closer to the ground while the distance from frame to ground near the suspension stays approximately constant.
Brian: Thanks for weighing in. These are all concerns of mine, especially not increasing tongue weight any more than necessary. The spare tire/wheel combo should be approximately 50# plus bracketry and is being replaced with a 65# condensing unit and platform framing in almost the same location so pretty much a wash on the back. The spare I would like to locate just forward of the gray tank if possible for the best clearance and minimal addition to tongue weight. Both would also be as centered as possible to not impact side-to-side loading any more than necessary.
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:54 PM   #12
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The spare I would like to locate just forward of the gray tank if possible for the best clearance and minimal addition to tongue weight.
That makes sense to me. Of course the body width will make getting the spare in and out more awkward than it would be under the tongue.

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Both would also be as centered as possible to not impact side-to-side loading any more than necessary.

... or, check the side-to-side weight distribution and use the tire to reduce the imbalance
... or, put the tire as close as practical to one side for easier access - maybe the curb side for safety in case of a roadside tire change.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:04 PM   #13
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The page link doesn't get to the right page of the thread for a user which has the posts-per-page preference set to anything other than the default (10)... so this links directly to the relevant post:
Modifications to Eggscape, post #222: Tongue work done on Eggscape
Thanks Brian...I still have to figure out how to link directly to a post.

You are also correct in saying the tire hangs down about 4 inches below the frame. People should keep in mind however the front stabilizer jacks without pads on the bottom hang down 3 inches. Depending on the pads you have on the bottom, this could add 1 to 2 inches depending on how they hang when in the up position.

It was my understanding that the bottom of the storage box was flat on the frame...between the frame and as you say hangs down on each side.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:17 PM   #14
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Our Award trailer came with one of these that telescopes out.

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Old 02-25-2019, 06:37 PM   #15
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...I still have to figure out how to link directly to a post.
Most people haven't - it's not obvious.

If viewing the forum in a web browser (I don't know about the app) when you point at the post number (upper right corner of the post) the pop-up says "permalink". This is telling you that if you copy the link (right-click on a normal computer), you can use that to link directly to the post.

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Originally Posted by Eggscape View Post
You are also correct in saying the tire hangs down about 4 inches below the frame. People should keep in mind however the front stabilizer jacks without pads on the bottom hang down 3 inches. Depending on the pads you have on the bottom, this could add 1 to 2 inches depending on how they hang when in the up position.
Some weight-distributing hitch systems hang down quite a bit as well. With the tire up between the frame rails (not under them), and with the height of a typical recent Escape, this doesn't seem like a clearance problem at all.

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It was my understanding that the bottom of the storage box was flat on the frame...between the frame and as you say hangs down on each side.
That would be great.
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:09 PM   #16
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Our Award trailer came with one of these that telescopes out...
That's the one I had mentioned earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
There are also swinging and telescoping carriers commercially available, and either style could be custom-built if desired to work better with the dimensions and configuration of the Escape frame and body.
It seems like a decent design, but even though it has different brackets available to accommodate different frame configurations, they all seem to assume that there is room for the handle end (as shown in the outside photo of the Award) and the storage bracket to which it is docked to come up as high under the outer edge of the body as the top of the tire underneath. The Escape body bulges down outboard of the frame, hiding the frame to some extent (among other functions), so the highest that the handle end can be is below the bottom surface of the floor (where the tire is held against). This is why someone handy (such as Dave) might want to build something very similar but with a different handle end and corresponding bracket.

For anyone wanting to get into the details, the design and dimensions are shown in the installation instructions and model identification sheet.
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:12 PM   #17
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Personally I would hesitate to mount an AC unit on the rear of a trailer, because it is the location that gets bounced the worst. ACs don't stand up to shocks as well as spare tires do.
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:54 PM   #18
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Thanks Brian
Looks like if I hold the post number on my iPad that a link comes up with the words COPY below. Here is a test Frame width on 21 to post 15 here...if it works.

I was thinking a person might be able to make one out of a short aluminium extension ladder...and be able to use the ladder if there was a roof top emergency. It would be all about pins and clips.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:11 PM   #19
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Looks like if I hold the post number on my iPad that a link comes up with the words COPY below. Here is a test Frame width on 21 to post 15 here...if it works.
Success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggscape View Post
I was thinking a person might be able to make one out of a short aluminium extension ladder...and be able to use the ladder if there was a roof top emergency. It would be all about pins and clips.
Interesting idea!

The challenge might be in clearance, since a typical ladder wouldn't be wide enough to fit the tire between the rails, and the entire rail width under the tire would cut significantly into clearance.
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