Towing an Escape 19 with an 08 Honda Pilot - Escape Trailer Owners Community

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Towing and Hitching
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-11-2017, 12:41 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Trailer: ISO Escape 19
Posts: 26
Towing an Escape 19 with an 08 Honda Pilot

I am new to this forum and have recently purchased an escape 19. I would like to hear if anyone is towing their 19 with a first gen Honda Pilot I have a 2008. If you are what do you have for accessories to improve the tow handling?

1. Is a load leveling hitch required? My gut feeling is yes account independent rear suspension, so the rear doesn't squatand lighten the front driving steering wheels. Recommended make and model?

2. What is a recommended trailer brake controller, once again I suspect this is an essential item but what make and model?

TN ......
__________________

True North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 06:52 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Signal Mountain (Chattanooga), Tennessee
Trailer: Escape 21 November 2014; 2016 Ram Eco-diesel 4WD Crew
Posts: 481
For starters, measure somewhere on your hitch that you'll be able to see after you connect up the trailer. Measure before hitching and again after hitching. Let the forum folks know the change, since every vehicle seems different.

Depending on your answer, your fellow forum members will help with advice on what amount of "squat" would be acceptable. Many like the "more connected" feel even if squat is not very much.

Bill
__________________

Bill and Earline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 07:09 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 14,220
Firstly, you will need to confirm your tow rating. In 2008, the Honda Pilot had either a 3,500 or a 4,500 lb tow rating. A loaded 19 will push towards 4,000 lbs.

I towed my 2009 19 with a 2009 Pilot most of the time for 6 years. Keep in mind, the 2009 was a redesigned model. While it was rated for towing 4,500 lbs, its GCWR (Gross Comined Weight Rating of the tow and trailer) was as high as other SUV's with a 5,000 lb tow rating. Honda had beefed up the suspension that year, and added a factory hitch receiver.

For me it was quite capable, with the only exception that on long steep grades, I either had to slow down a bit, or deal with continuous high revs. Wind would affect it a bit too. On the flat open road, it performed great, and I loved the vehicle for all round use, much better than a pickup.

Is your 19 a 2017 model? They are a bit heavier than the previous ones. This will further tax the Pilot's capability. That said, if all the ducks line up in a row, and you are not exceeding towing specs, I would say to give it a try, BUT be ready to have to purchase a new tow vehicle if needed. This is the approach my brother is taking with his new 2017 19 and 2010 Honda Pilot. He is willing to (and eventually will) buy a new tow vehicle if necessary. He does not want a pickup as big as an F-150, so is keen on seeing what the new Ranger will offer, otherwise will look at a Tacoma or other SUV.

I never used a WDH for the first 4 years, not to bothered by the towing nuances without one, but did use an Anderson hitch for a couple years, and it did smooth out the ride some. I would recommend one.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 08:29 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Trailer: ISO Escape 19
Posts: 26
OK this is educational! I thought my Pilot had a tow rating of 4500 pounds but will confirm.

The trailer is a 2017 escape 19 so therefore a bit heavier, and yes I expect I will have to upgrade the tow vehicle but like yourself I am very happy with the pilot as an all around vehicle, but it is creeping up on 10 years old, has 160k miles, but still runs perfectly.

I think a truck may be in my future as I would like to travel with a motorcycle or two in the box. However I would like to wait a year and see what Toyota does with the Tundra.

As far as measuring the amount of Squat, the trailer is still in Chilliwack, I'd like to have everything prepped on the vehicle before I get there. Given how much snow there is between Edmonton and there no point in going to retrieve it just yet, so I have some time.

TN ......
True North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 08:57 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: n/a, Texas
Trailer: Escape
Posts: 419
I towed a 15B with a 04 Pilot. I recall that the owners manual had a section on how much squat is acceptable. Although my trailer was within the guidelines, I didn't like the "headlights up" appearance. Also, I didn't need or want a wd hitch. I installed Airlift 1000 airbags and was happy with the resulting ability to level the vehicle and to keep the hitch at the proper height to level the trailer.

The airbags don't distribute weight like a wdh, or increase the towing capacity. But if your Pilot meets all the towing specs, I recommend the airbags as a way to deal with the "squat" issue.
Viajante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 10:07 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
fudge_brownie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Janesville, WI, Wisconsin
Trailer: Escape 19 (sold) Escape 21 2014
Posts: 1,457
I think the standard brake controller is the Prodigy models made by Tekonsha. There are other brands but this seems to be the most popular. They are easily transferred from vehicle to vehicle with the possible purchase of a different connector cable. They also make a wireless model that seems to have had a good reception.

On your Honda you need to be concerned about two numbers. Everyone looks at the towing rate but as Jim mentions just as important is the Gross Combined Weight Rating. Be familiar with this, particularly down the road, as you consider a different vehicle with a motorcycle.
__________________
Paul and Janet Braun
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 now 2012 Toyota Sequoia V8
Escape 19' 2010 now 2014 Escape 21'
fudge_brownie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 11:45 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Fremont, California
Trailer: 2017 Escape 17B
Posts: 196
I don't know about the '08's, but the newer Pilots have a 3,500 lb rating for 2WD and either 3,500 lb with AWD or 5,000 with AWD + transmission cooler. The 4,500 rating was upgraded to 5,000 lbs in the 2016+ model. I think the stock sticker on the hitch for yours will say 3,500 / 4,500, so you may have to verify that you have the ATF cooler installed to know for sure. You can ask towing questions on piloteers.org and you will certainly get an answer quickly.

We have a 2017 Pilot EX-L AWD that will become our tow vehicle for a 17B while we are between Touaregs. Our 2012 Touareg TDI is being bought back as part of the emissions lawsuit. We will try to find a 2013-2016 in Feb 2018 when the lease is up on our Audi A6, but for about 6 months we will be towing with the Pilot and longer if we can't find one at the right price. I will be using a WDH.
skyfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 11:58 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Escondido, California
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19'
Posts: 944
I pull my 19' with a 2010 Honda Pilot

I originally put an Equalizer WDH on my 2010 Honda Pilot (rated for 4500lbs) pulling my 19' with 4 six volt batteries in the front box and a high tongue weight of 600 lbs. I also had air bags installed inside the rear coil springs for additional fine tuning. This worked well until I noticed after about a year that the factory installed hitch welds were starting to fail. This was caused by utilizing the WDH with a high tongue weight and a crappy factory welding job on the hitch. I then extended the rear bumper and moved 2 batteries to the back with a resulting tongue weight of 450 lbs, perfect ratio with my total trailer weight. I still use the WDH because it gives me good traction on the front wheels with front wheel drive. I feel this is especially important when going up a steep hill in the rain, on gravel or in less-than-desirable conditions. I can feel the front wheels slip sometimes without it. The welds I have now are much better than the factory job and I keep an eye on them and don't think they will fail again. If I had the money to afford it I would get another tow vehicle without uni-body construction and a much stronger hitch design but what I have now will do for a few more years.
__________________
480 Amps 12VDC Battery Capacity,
350 Watts Adjustable Solar Panels,
2500 Watt Inverter;
"Want Some Ice Cubes?, "Want a Frozen Margarita?", Want a Jump?"
hotfishtacos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 02:50 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 11,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
I am new to this forum and have recently purchased an escape 19. I would like to hear if anyone is towing their 19 with a first gen Honda Pilot I have a 2008. If you are what do you have for accessories to improve the tow handling?

1. Is a load leveling hitch required? My gut feeling is yes account independent rear suspension, so the rear doesn't squat and lighten the front driving steering wheels. Recommended make and model?...
"Load leveling" is somewhat misleading, so I suggest using the industry's standard term: "weight-distributing hitch" (WDH) or "weight distribution" (WD).

Just to simplify the decision:
  • Whether the rear suspension is independent (such as in the Pilot) or a beam axle (such as most pickup trucks) has absolutely nothing to do with how much the rear end squats.
  • The lightening of the load on the front wheels (if not using a weight-distributing hitch) depends only on the weight on the hitch, the distance from ball to tug's rear axle, and the wheelbase of the tug - it has absolutely nothing to do with the suspension design or how much the rear end is allowed to squat.
So don't worry about the suspension being independent.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 03:02 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 11,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
I thought my Pilot had a tow rating of 4500 pounds but will confirm.
I suggest re-reading the owner's manual. The cargo and Towing a Trailer sections provide all the information needed about the ratings. We can help with interpreting it.

Honda's limit of 4500 pounds is only for boat trailers; the limit for other trailers is 3500 pounds. This distinction by Honda is unusual, and presumably results from one of two factors:
Frontal area
Boats have relatively low frontal area and aerodynamic drag for their mass, which reduces the amount of power needed to keep moving and thus reduces overheating of drivetrain components (engine, transmission, final drives. I think this is the likely reason; some other manufacturers provide explicit limits for the frontal area of the trailer.
Stability
Power boats tend to have much of their mass concentrated at the engine, which is reasonably near the trailer axles (especially with an inboard engine), which helps stability.
You might either keep the trailer under 3500 pounds loaded, or consider it to be somewhat boat-like in its aerodynamics and mass distribution.

To determine how much cargo and trailer weight you can add to your Pilot, you can compare its weight to the ratings. You can weigh with the expected passengers and cargo, or weigh the empty Pilot and add the known weights of passengers and cargo. To get actual total weight and weight on each axle, the highway scale on the Yellowhead 5 kilometres east of Ardrossan is easy to reach and use.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 03:03 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 11,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
As far as measuring the amount of Squat, the trailer is still in Chilliwack, I'd like to have everything prepped on the vehicle before I get there.
To estimate how much the rear end will squat, just load the rear up and see what it does. If you expect 400 pounds of hitch weight, and you weigh (for example) 200 pounds, just stand on the ball mount, bounce a bit and let the suspension settle, and use a tape measure to see how much lower it ends up sitting... and double the amount of drop because you tested with half the expected hitch weight. Remember that you will also presumably pack stuff in the cargo area of the Pilot, so maybe put that weight of stuff inside first. This would give you a rough idea of "that's okay" or "way too much"; Honda says
Quote:
If the difference is more than 3Ύ inch, you have too much load on the tongue.
... which should correspond to 450 pounds.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 05:19 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 11,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
To estimate how much the rear end will squat, just load the rear up and see what it does....
... or you can use Honda's data. The full version of the information which I quoted from page 222 of the manual above is:
tongue load --> height difference
150 lbs (68 kg) --> 1 ½’’ (38 mm)
250 lbs (114 kg) --> 2 Ό’’ (57 mm)
350 lbs (160 kg) --> 3’’ (76 mm)
450 lbs (205 kg) --> 3 Ύ’’ (95 mm)
Typical Escape 19's will be near the top of this range; if the tongue weight is 12% of total trailer weight, a trailer loaded to a total of 4000 pounds (for instance) would have 480 pounds of tongue weight.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 07:31 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Trailer: ISO Escape 19
Posts: 26
OK I had a good read of the owners manual and there appears that you can pull a 4500 pound boat but only a 3500 pound trailer. I don't get that reasoning other than maybe a boat has less wind resistance.

So therefore I am only able to pull 3500 pounds which is pretty close to the weight of a 2017 Escape 19. Looks like I may be in the market for a new tow vehicle much sooner than anticipated.

There is also a section in there that equates hitch deflection unloaded then loaded 3-3/4" equates to the maximum which is 450 pounds.

Thanks very much for the advice on the brake controller I will definitely need one of those.

TN ......
True North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 07:39 PM   #14
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chilliwack, British Columbia
Trailer: Escape#4, 2019 Escape21 DejaView pulled by 2014 Ram Hemi/8sp
Posts: 19,679
Some new tow vehicles already have a built in brake controller, particularly truck models.
__________________
Jim
It is not the years in your life but the life in your years Lincoln
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 08:22 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
OK I had a good read of the owners manual and there appears that you can pull a 4500 pound boat but only a 3500 pound trailer. I don't get that reasoning other than maybe a boat has less wind resistance.

So therefore I am only able to pull 3500 pounds which is pretty close to the weight of a 2017 Escape 19. Looks like I may be in the market for a new tow vehicle much sooner than anticipated.

There is also a section in there that equates hitch deflection unloaded then loaded 3-3/4" equates to the maximum which is 450 pounds.

Thanks very much for the advice on the brake controller I will definitely need one of those.

TN ......
Escape has previously said for their classic 19' that a minimum towing capacity for the vehicle is 4000. The new 19' weighs more than the classic. There have been many discussions on here in the past with the members telling people not to tow the 19' with a vehicle that only has 3500 capacity. You really need more than that. Yes, good idea to get another TV.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 06:30 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Signal Mountain (Chattanooga), Tennessee
Trailer: Escape 21 November 2014; 2016 Ram Eco-diesel 4WD Crew
Posts: 481
The deciding rationale for us to upgrade our tow vehicle from an older 4Runner was not "can it tow it" but was instead "what would happen in an emergency."

When that deer runs out, when the semi slams on its brakes, when you hit a patch of ice or hydro-plane. How will that marginally acceptable tow vehicle react with your trailer.

I'm trying to remember if anyone has ever said, I wish I could go back to my earlier tow vehicle that was less capable.

I'd recommend using your current vehicle, as we did, to get your new Escape home, but be on the lookout as you go to rallies or other gatherings and ask to sit in people's tow vehicles and get their opinions in person.
Bill and Earline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 09:54 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Trailer: ISO Escape 19
Posts: 26
Wow some really sage advice in these reply's thanks to everyone. I have decided to borrow my nephews truck to pick the trailer up, he has a full sized Chevy 1/2 ton that is more than capable.

Then I don't have to worry about stressing out the pilot and stressing out myself.

You are absolutely right one needs to prepare for the emergent situation. Not being able to stop would be very irresponsible and scary.

Brian B-P thanks for the numbers, I see you are in the neighborhood, maybe we can chat trailers sometime over a coffee.

TN ......
True North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 10:20 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
thoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,207
There are a lot of factors including tires, types and sizes of braking material and design involved in a vehicle's stopping distance.

If the brakes on the tow are on excellent condition, and the trailer brakes are correctly adjusted, a larger heavier tow/trailer combination is not going to stop any faster than a lighter tow/trailer one. In fact, with more total weight it could take longer to stop a heavier tow/trailer combination. Ever watch a semi in an emergency braking situation? I'm at my most nervous driving whenever a semi is behind me.

There are very many factors involved in what makes a safe tow/trailer combination.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
thoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 11:20 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Hertel, Wisconsin
Trailer: TBD
Posts: 2,148
Fact or Assumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
Wow some really sage advice in these reply's thanks to everyone. I have decided to borrow my nephews truck to pick the trailer up, he has a full sized Chevy 1/2 ton that is more than capable.
Just curious , is your statement based on fact or on an
assumption ?.
I owned a full size 1/2 ton V6 pickup truck that had a tow rating of only 2000 lbs and was a terrible & unsafe tow vehicle for my 16 ft Scamp and was useless for hauling firewood or anything for that matter

Brand loyalty and whether a member owns a particular vehicle often taints these threads and sometimes renders their advice useless
steve dunham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 11:30 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
thoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Brand loyalty and whether a member owns a particular vehicle often taints these threads and sometimes renders their advice useless
Whereas clearly and frequently stated brand animosity makes ones statements inherently valuable?

Yours could be seen as a quite insulting post. People can differ and have well reasoned decisions that might not agree with yours, but insults have no place here IMHO.
__________________

__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
thoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.
×