Well Optioned 2nd Gen 5.0TA Pin Weight - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 11-30-2018, 08:26 PM   #1
Tin
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Well Optioned 2nd Gen 5.0TA Pin Weight

The Pin weight indicated by the 2017 E.T.I. Owners Manuel on page 14 is shown as 19% to 25%."

2017 E.T.I. Owners Manuel; Chapter 3: Towing and Leveling.
E.T.I references 20% for the 5.0TA Pin Weight in several places.

The bottom line is 20% (total weight of trailer) pin weight for 5th wheel trailers is and has been the golden rule for as long as I can remember. This applies to All 5th wheel trailers regardless of size or weight (Including Bigfoot, Escapes and Scamps).

"2nd gen 5.0" are about 400 lbs heavier than 1st gens and a well optioned 2nd gen 5.0 will easily weigh 4,500 Lbs. @ delivery (Mine was 4,499 lbs., No oven, No underside foam)

So let see:
4,500 lbs. Trailer @ 20% = 900lbs. Pin weight (at orientation ETI est. my actual pin weight sitting in their shop @ around 750 lbs. so I knew to load heavy items up front trying to achieve 20% . )

4,500 lbs. Trailer + 500 lbs(camping gear) @ 20% = 1000lbs. Pin weight (loaded for camping)

1. 1000 lbs. Pin weight (you need to distribute your load forward to achieve 20%)

2. 400 lbs. driver and passenger (along with small personal effects, phones, tablets, rear cameras, safety items ect. )

3. 200lbs hitch weight ( an ultimate hitch is lighter )

4. Now add to this weight all dealer or personal item added to your tow vehicle
(bed liners, line X, tonneau covers, tool boxs, tools, mirrors, running boards, kayak racks ect.)

5. Lastly add everything else you plan to take along in the cab and in the bed of your truck. (dogs or cats, food, crates, fire wood, grills, tables, chairs, fire pits, gazebos, easy ups, bikes, kayaks ect.)

Just add up items 1-5 (YMMV) for a close estimate of your new trucks payload plus any safety margin you would like.

One last note, it takes a conscious effort to achieve a 20% pin weight. Just like a bumper pull trailer you have to distribute your camping gear accordingly. It does not happen by itself.

below clips our from ETI owners manual
The best thing you can do is weigh you rig!
Tin.
Attached Images
File Type: png 4.Weighing Your Fifth Wheel.PNG (87.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: png 5.Weight Distribution.PNG (120.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: png 6.Trailer Loading.PNG (86.3 KB, 19 views)
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:23 PM   #2
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On my return trip from the rally I stopped at local scale and weighed the truck with trailer loaded and then weighed tow vehicle without the trailer hiched. My pin weight came in at 800lbs. I too have well optioned trailer without the foam underneath. Truck and trailer travel well together never feel uneasy.

Always thought if I needed more weight at the pin box I could look at replacing the factory mattress with heavier mattress, look at getting weight under the mattress or as you stated shift weight forward.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Kent View Post
My pin weight came in at 800lbs.
...
Truck and trailer travel well together never feel uneasy.

Always thought if I needed more weight at the pin box I could look at replacing the factory mattress with heavier mattress, look at getting weight under the mattress or as you stated shift weight forward.
Adding mass way up at the loft height would be undesirable. Fortunately, you don't need more pin weight. I don't know what your total loaded trailer weight is, but assuming it's not over the 5500 pound limit, 800 pounds is enough.

If you are concerned about the 20% to 25% guideline in the Escape owner's manual, I suggest asking Reace (not just anyone who answers e-mail or the phone at Escape) if he really intends for the pin weight of a 5.0TA to be at least 777 pounds (20% of a base, dry, empty trailer) to as much as 1375 pounds (25% of a trailer at GVWR).
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Adding mass way up at the loft height would be undesirable. Fortunately, you don't need more pin weight. I don't know what your total loaded trailer weight is, but assuming it's not over the 5500 pound limit, 800 pounds is enough.

If you are concerned about the 20% to 25% guideline in the Escape owner's manual, I suggest asking Reace (not just anyone who answers e-mail or the phone at Escape) if he really intends for the pin weight of a 5.0TA to be at least 777 pounds (20% of a base, dry, empty trailer) to as much as 1375 pounds (25% of a trailer at GVWR).

I'm not concerned and happy with current setup and pin box weight and I have no plans to add any weight. When weighed everything came in well under max numbers for tow vehicle and trailer.
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Old 12-01-2018, 02:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Fortunately, you don't need more pin weight. I don't know what your total loaded trailer weight is, but assuming it's not over the 5500 pound limit, 800 pounds is enough.

Hi Brian, What Escape documentation are you basing your response on ? Is this what your Escape owner's manual states ? That strange my 2017 E.T.I. Owners Manuel on page 14 is shown as 19% to 25%.

" 2. Calculate the pin load by subtracting the weight of the truck (without trailer attached) from the weight of the truck with the trailer attached. The pin weight thus obtained should be 19% - 25% of the total trailer weight for good towing. The pin weight must not exceed the maximum allowable for your truck. (Consult truck manufacturer’s specifications for your
vehicle)."
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Old 12-01-2018, 02:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
If you are concerned about the 20% to 25% guideline in the Escape owner's manual, I suggest asking Reace (not just anyone who answers e-mail or the phone at Escape) if he really intends for the pin weight of a 5.0TA to be at least 777 pounds (20% of a base, dry, empty trailer) to as much as 1375 pounds (25% of a trailer at GVWR).

Again that is strange as My 2017 E.T.I. Owners Manuel on page 14 is shown as 19% to 25%. Is this what your Escape owner's manual states 20% to 25% ?

Why do feel it necessary to ask Reace and only Reace about the pin weight range when it is clearly stated in the owner's manual ? Do you think the owner's manual is incorrect ? or that Reace is not aware of the information in his own manual ?

Why do you feel it necessary to interpret Reace's intentions when it is clearly stated in the owner's manual and is clearly indicated on each trailers " Vehicle Specification Name Plate" attached inside the closet of every 2nd gen 5.0 and is specific to that trailer ?

As far as trying to correlate the static empty dry weight of a trailer setting in ETI's shop with the pin weight percentage (clearly stated in the owner's manual and on each trailer) of a optioned and loaded trailer ready for towing makes no sense as the two are distinctly different.
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Old 12-01-2018, 02:51 PM   #7
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I'm confused, what is the point or is there a question here?
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Old 12-01-2018, 02:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent View Post
I'm not concerned and happy with current setup and pin box weight and I have no plans to add any weight. When weighed everything came in well under max numbers for tow vehicle and trailer.
Hi Kent, No adding weight is not required to achieve proper pin weight. All that is required is to distribute your weight accordingly. See page 19 in your owner's manual.

"Before Heading Out. Weight Distribution

Proper weight and load distribution is absolutely essential to safe towing. It is necessary to maintain a certain percentage
of gross vehicle weight on the tow vehicle. Common recommendations place approximately 10% - 15% of a loaded weight
on a travel trailer hitch and approximately 20% - 25% on a fifth wheel pin weight. Too much or too little weight upon the
hitch leads to dangerous driving conditions such as sway and reduced tow vehicle control. In no circumstance should the
loaded weight ever exceed the GVWR or the GAWRs. "
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
Hi Brian, What Escape documentation are you basing your response on ? Is this what your Escape owner's manual states ? That strange my 2017 E.T.I. Owners Manuel on page 14 is shown as 19% to 25%
Tin, I agree that the manual gives that weight range. I think that you have summarized and interpreted it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
Why do feel it necessary to ask Reace and only Reace about the pin weight range when it is clearly stated in the owner's manual ? Do you think the owner's manual is incorrect ? or that Reace is not aware of the information in his own manual ?
Yes, the owner's manual appears to be incorrect for the Escape 5.0TA. No, I don't think that Reace is aware that it says this, any more than he was aware that the Escape website incorrectly described the frame construction for many years. In any company there are times that one person does something (such as publishing material) that others in the company are not aware of.

Reace is the designer of all Escape trailers, and in every technical issue Reace has been confirmed as Escape's ultimate authority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
Why do you feel it necessary to interpret Reace's intentions when it is clearly stated in the owner's manual and is clearly indicated on each trailers " Vehicle Specification Name Plate" attached inside the closet of every 2nd gen 5.0 and is specific to that trailer ?
Because 20% to 25% makes no sense for the 5.0TA, given its proportions and the fact that it comes out of the factory with a much lower pin weight fraction than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
As far as trying to correlate the static empty dry weight of a trailer setting in ETI's shop with the pin weight percentage (clearly stated in the owner's manual and on each trailer) of a optioned and loaded trailer ready for towing makes no sense as the two are distinctly different.
Since the options are not distributed further forward than the mass of the trailer overall, they will not shift the mass distribution forward. The storage spaces are not predominantly far forward, and the water tank is behind the axle, so reasonable loading should not be expected to greatly shift the mass distribution forward.


This situation is similar to the Tow vehicle tire pressure topic, in which the manual provides well-intentioned but inappropriate advice, which is not followed by Escape staff, including Reace himself. This is not unique to Escape - I have seen statements in owner's manuals from major automotive manufacturers which are clearly standard text (used for all models, probably written many years ago, influenced by lawyers) and do not make sense for the model covered by the manual.


I wouldn't have mentioned this at all, realizing that it would be controversial, but a post suggested that another owner had considered adding mass forward just to ballast the front - that would be unfortunate, and I hope that no one does that. Fortunately, most Escape 5.0TA owners have either not noticed this recommendation in the manual, or have reasonably chosen not to follow it.
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
"Common recommendations place approximately 10% - 15% of a loaded weight
on a travel trailer hitch and approximately 20% - 25% on a fifth wheel pin weight"
The wording here (from page 19 of the manual) is important: the range is a common recommendation, not specific to the Escape 5.0TA.
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