How long does a tank of propane last?

[gbaglo]

Don't some new cars shut off the engine when you are stopped at a red light?
They do that to save fuel and cut emissions. Don't think they do it to sell more starters.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by sunrisetrucker

Years ago, when I drove school bus we had to take a half day course on safety and bus maintenance. We were told to leave the buses idling for short stops because a cost analyses had shown that the cost of replacement starters was greater than the fuel savings. Makes me wonder who was right, your instructor or mine.

Our course was given by a representative from International Trucks, and not an instructor. Maybe the school bus engines and starters were not as tough?

I remember when younger very often having to do repairs on starters on my personal vehicles, sometimes even just giving the solenoid a whack to loosen it. In the last 30 or more years, I have never had an issue with a starter. They must be making them better.

Anyway, I am not going to worry about the starter going on my vehicles. I only idle to warm a vehicle up, otherwise shut it off.

[sunrisetrucker]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Maybe the school bus engines and starters were not as tough?

You could be right they were gas engines converted to propane.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I remember when younger very often having to do repairs on starters on my personal vehicles, sometimes even just giving the solenoid a whack to loosen it. In the last 30 or more years, I have never had an issue with a starter. They must be making them better.

Are they making them better or are you just driving newer vehicles. My first two cars had a lot of miles on them and they both needed starters, since then only one and that was a Ford Aerostar, with almost 200,000 Km on it

[Donna D.]

Could it be that "years ago" was so long ago that the equipment is now so different that the rules needed to be changed too?

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Could it be that "years ago" was so long ago that the equipment is now so different that the rules needed to be changed too?

Kinda ruins the idea of sitting on a porch swing in your old age, dispensing knowledge.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I too have never shut off my propane when refuelling. I have not travelled all over, but where I have I have never seen a sign saying to do so.

There's no reason to shut off the propane supply, only the burner (meaning no reason to turn valves, just use the refrigerator control). With a trailer (rather than a motorhome) it is a pain to stop before the pump area, get out of the tug, go into the trailer, turn off the refrigerator, then reverse the whole process after fuelling.

Of course there isn't a sign saying "turn off your propane-powered refrigerator". It's just an ignition source, and it would be silly to list all possible sources. Safety guidelines (such as those from API and from Shell) are typically more concerned about static discharge than flames, but do mention RV appliances.

A running vehicle is not a very effective ignition source compared to the flame of an operating refrigerator or the pilot of a non-DSI water heater, furnace, or refrigerator... and few people argue the validity of the rule to shut off engines.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MyronL

I always run my fridge on propane when driving, and always shut the engine down when refueling. Never problems with exploding propane so I believe that's a non- issue easily discounted.

I agree that use of propane while driving is unlikely to result in a propane explosion.

The potential risk at gasoline stations has nothing to do with exploding propane; it is exploding gasoline vapours, ignited by the appliance's flame.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Don't some new cars shut off the engine when you are stopped at a red light?
They do that to save fuel and cut emissions. Don't think they do it to sell more starters.

Yes, this has been common in Europe for years, and is now catching on here. Hybrids have always done this. It works well, although it only makes a significant difference in urban traffic.

To be fair to those avoiding starts, these stop-start systems normally include improved starters and batteries to withstand the extra use and to ensure immediate starts. The hybrids are the best at this, having substantial motor-generators which can act as the starter motor.

[Marry]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Yes, this has been common in Europe for years, and is now catching on here. Hybrids have always done this. It works well, although it only makes a significant difference in urban traffic.

Did that. Done that. Two years ago when we were in the Netherlands.
A person with a lot of patience will survive. Not me... Still not over it.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Could it be that "years ago" was so long ago that the equipment is now so different that the rules needed to be changed too?

Hi: Donna D... When I was a starving student which was "Years ago"... I hand cranked my car for two weeks as I couldn't afford the repair cost...only to find out the starter cable was loose!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

So we might have this propane for a long time does it ever go bad like gas ?

The propane itself does not go bad but the tank in which it is contained could go bad. That being said, a new tank, full of propane, will be good as long as the tank is viable.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Don't some new cars shut off the engine when you are stopped at a red light?
They do that to save fuel and cut emissions. Don't think they do it to sell more starters.

My F150 EcoBoost does, as do all the newer trucks with the EcoBoost engine as far as I know. This feature deactivates automatically however when your trailer is connected.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

My F150 EcoBoost does, as do all the newer trucks with the EcoBoost engine as far as I know. This feature deactivates automatically however when your trailer is connected.

Mine doesn't do that.

[padlin]

Might just be the little EB's, my 3.5 doesn't either.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

My F150 EcoBoost does, as do all the newer trucks with the EcoBoost engine as far as I know. This feature deactivates automatically however when your trailer is connected.

I noticed that the 2017 F-150 online configuration tool (for Canada) lists

• 3.5L EcoBoost® High Output Engine with Auto Start/Stop
• 3.5L EcoBoost® Engine
• 2.7L EcoBoost® Engine

as three separate items... so in the F-150 Auto Start/Stop is only on some 3.5's, and perhaps no 2.7's (although it was standard with the 2.7 a couple of years ago). The new 10-speed automatic transmission has an electrically-driven hydraulic pump specifically to make stop-start operation better; it's probably not coincidence that stop-start is only available with the 10-speed for 2017 (at least with the EcoBoost 3.5).

Other Ford models have Auto Start/Stop as well.

But yes, it's getting common... not that this has much to do with propane consumption.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Mine doesn't do that.

Originally Posted by padlin

Might just be the little EB's, my 3.5 doesn't either.

This feature was first instituted in 2015 on all the US 2.7 EcoBoost F150s. It is not currently on the 3.5s. However, the sales manager at my dealership told me that Ford will make auto shutdown a standard feature on all Ford vehicles in the near future (whatever near future means). By default, it is active at startup but there is a button on the dash to deactivate it. And as Robert stated, it is deactivated when a trailer is connected. I cannot comment on what Ford offers north of the border, but apparently Brian has researched that. It is interesting that the 10 speed transmission resulted from a joint effort between Ford and GM. It is my understanding that Ford is putting it in the F150 and GM is putting it in the Camaro first.

[SFDavis50]

The new second-generation 3.5-liter EcoBoost engine provides impressively enhanced performance, thanks to engineering innovations and a first-to-market 10-speed transmission pairing. This engine delivers 50 lb.-ft. more peak torque compared with the first generation—up to 470 lb.-ft. The engine also provides better low-end and peak engine performance, ideal for hauling heavy payloads and towing trailers.
Also new: standard Auto Start-Stop Technology, Ford-first dual-direct and port fuelinjection system, plus turbochargers for more boost. A 10-speed transmission yields improved acceleration and performance compared with 6-speed models and the combo offers better fuel economy.

The 2.7L EcoBoost delivers robust performance, with up to 8,500 lbs. of maximum towing and 2,210 lbs. of maximum payload. It features twin turbochargers for on-demand power, upper block and cylinders made of the same compacted graphite iron used in the 6.7L Power Stroke® V8 Turbo Diesel, twin independent variable cam timing, plus a variable-displacement oil pump and piston connecting rods that use an offset I-beam that provides strength while reducing weight for better responsiveness. It also includes Auto Start-Stop Technology, which shuts off the engine when you come to a stop to save fuel.

As far as I can tell you can't get the 10 speed transmission with the 2.7 EcoBoost. This is on the U.S. version of the 2017 build your own. Also the High Output engine is only available on the Raptor version.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

This feature was first instituted in 2015 on all the US 2.7 EcoBoost F150s. It is not currently on the 3.5s. However, the sales manager at my dealership told me that Ford will make auto shutdown a standard feature on all Ford vehicles in the near future (whatever near future means).
...
I cannot comment on what Ford offers north of the border, but apparently Brian has researched that..

We essentially never get anything which is not also available in the U.S. The Ford U.S. configuration tool also lists two EcoBoost 3.5 variants, one of which includes Auto Start/Stop in its description. The EcoBoost 2.7 also includes Auto Start/Stop in its description.

I think the sales manager is just clearing out his 2016 stock, or is having trouble getting 2017 F-150's with Auto Start/Stop... maybe a regional issue?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Marry

Did that. Done that. Two years ago when we were in the Netherlands.
A person with a lot of patience will survive. Not me... Still not over it.

I assume the issue was lag when the accelerator is pushed and the engine has to start. Annoyance level depends on both how quick the vehicle is to start and to get the transmission functional, and the driver. This isn't an issue at all with hybrids, which start moving on electric power with no delay, not having to wait for the engine to start.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

We essentially never get anything which is not also available in the U.S. The Ford U.S. configuration tool also lists two EcoBoost 3.5 variants, one of which includes Auto Start/Stop in its description. The EcoBoost 2.7 also includes Auto Start/Stop in its description.

I think the sales manager is just clearing out his 2016 stock, or is having trouble getting 2017 F-150's with Auto Start/Stop... maybe a regional issue?

Brian, I don't think your assessment regarding clearing out of 2016 stock is correct. My fault, but I should have been more clear when I said I was told that auto stop was coming to all Fords in the near future. That conversation between the sales manager and me occurred in 2015 when I was ordering my 2015 2.7 EcoBoost. I noted that auto stop was a fuel saver and asked why (at that time) it was only being used on the 2.7 powered F150s.

To clarify, I commented that I was unaware of what was available north of the border as a result of your statement "it's probably not coincidence that stop-start is only available with the 10-speed for 2017 (at least with the EcoBoost 3.5)." As I read it now I am thinking that what you are saying is that the 10-speed is an option with the 3.5 and you can still get the 3.5 with a 6-speed transmission but auto stop only with the 10-speed. (I don't know, I would only research it if I were in the market for a new truck). I initially thought you meant auto stop was only available in Canada on the 3.5 EcoBoost, and to the best of my knowledge (as of 2015 when I purchased mine) all 2.7s were being built equipped with auto stop. My apologies if I misinterpreted your statement. To further clarify, I have been told, maybe incorrectly, that some Ford features available in the US are not offered in Canada.