No propane getting to any appliance! - Page 4 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 09-09-2016, 12:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011 View Post
Of course I don't know too much about that at all, I just know that when I brought them back today at work. I did nothing difference in the way I connected to the trailer. Kind of like at work when someone says there is something wrong with their computer, and I go over to troubleshoot, it always been a perfectly. They always get mad!
Yay! Now you can go out and enjoy probably one of your last weekends out camping. Happy for ya that the propane tank thingie worked, one way or the other.

And, yeah, I hear ya on the computer issue. It'll happen to me, Dirk comes to look at it and things are *just fine*. Drives me nuts. I blame it all on Microsquish
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:25 PM   #32
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Hi: All... I don't know or care if it's correct but I always called it a spitter valve. When propane spits out of it and turns to frost... usually at that point the tank is really full. Once when refilling a tank for the trailer I left the black thingy on the regulator not pointing at either tank but at me. Nothing worked on propane in the trailer. Alf
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:15 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I have never heard of, or seen such a thing. When I refuel the tanks, they just fill until they hit the stamped weight, then stop. No screwdriver needed.
Yes, that is the standard fill-by-weight method, used for small cylinders everywhere I've seen in Alberta.

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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
There seems to be a number of different ways suppliers "fill" tanks. Some do it on a scale by weight (although I haven't had anyone use that technique in a couple of years), others open the relief screw & fill until vapor comes out, and at least one just filled the tank until it stopped.
That would be (in order):
  1. fill by weight - a correct method
  2. fill by level using the 80% level valve (or "spit valve"), watching for liquid to come out - a valid method if the tank has an 80% level valve
  3. dangerously stupid or lazy guy illegally depending the OPD (a safety backup) as the primary fill control method

Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
Hi: All... I don't know or care if it's correct but I always called it a spitter valve. When propane spits out of it and turns to frost... usually at that point the tank is really full.
The "spitter" or 80% level valve is connected to a dip tube which opens into the tank at the level corresponding to 80% of the total cylinder volume, which is the maximum allowed level of liquid in a propane tank.

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Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
Many propane dealers (including most of the ones we use) will open the bleeder valve about 1/4 to 1/2 turn during filling and look for liquid coming out. That ensures the tank is full regardless of whether you're filling by weight or by volume.
That is the only way to "fill by volume" - filling until the meter shows a particular amount is not reliable and not likely legal anywhere in North America. Using the 80% level valve while filling by weight seems to me like just a pointless waste of propane and source of pollution.

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Originally Posted by padlin View Post
In all the years of filling these tanks I never had anyone use the bleeder or whatever it's called till I started traveling out west. In the old days it was by weight, and once in a great while someone still does it that way. Mostly now it must be by back pressure or some such. The pump just cuts out when done. Many do still have the scale that they put the tank on to fill, but they don't use it. At least around my house.
See above... the pump does not know the level in the tank so if it is shutting down on high pressure (not some sort of automated scale) that's
  1. dangerously stupid or lazy guy illegally depending the OPD (a safety backup) as the primary fill control method
To be fair, larger tanks can have a "stop fill" valve (my motorhome does) which is designed to be the primary method of controlling the fill, but
  • small cylinders just have OPDs, not stop fill devices
  • when controlling the fill with an approved stop fill device, the 80% level valve is to be used as well as a backup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I assume then that filling by use of this bleeder valve, they are still able to charge for what is used by volume?
Only if they run the flow through a meter, and if they do that they can charge by volume regardless of how they decide when it's full.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:16 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
In a closed system a bleeder is necessary to allow the liquid to enter the system, otherwise air will prevent filling.
No...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
True, but provided there's no air in the tank (and there shouldn't be when it's empty, since as the propane is emptied, it's not replaced with air) there's no need to purge it. I've only ever assumed they open the bleeder when filling to verify the fill level.
Correct. The space in a propane cylinder which is not liquid propane is propane vapour. When liquid propane is pumped in, sufficient vapour condenses to make room for the additional propane - the liquid and vapour phases are always in equilibrium. There is no "venting" of air or anything else when a propane cylinder is refilled.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011 View Post
I was able to light the stove and start the fridge. I have no knowledge of such things but is it possible that there was an airlock or something?
If you do get air in the system (by leaving something disconnected, perhaps) then you won't be able to light appliances, but you'll still see the indication on auto-changeover regulator go green, and you'll still hear the hiss of gas coming out of burners (for instance). None of the hardware in the propane system has any idea whether air or propane vapour is being pushed through it. In fact, regulators are tested using air, and new propane systems should be tested with air (in case they leak) before purging out the air with propane.

The idea of a "air lock" would usually refer to a liquid (water or hydraulic fluid) system not working properly because of a gas (such as air) bubble in it. There's not supposed to be liquid anywhere in the propane system except in the tank, so the bubble thing isn't an issue.
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