Propane sensor alarm malfunction

[Mike Lewis]

Carl-

I'm sure you've discussed this in another thread, but if you don't mind repeating, please tell me what brand and capacity AGMs you bought.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

What if I just move the propane sensor to the opposite side of the trailer? Note that my trailer has the furnace in that area, but I don't see how that could be a problem. I'd wire the sensor into the 12V distribution panel.

Mike our detector was on the side with the heater . We made another cabinet in that area so we did the opposite and moved detector on the kitchen sink side . We have the 19 . So our batteries are in the front box not inside trailer . But there has never been any problem before or after we moved it . Pat

[Bill and Earline]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I replaced my propane detector in February. All was good until yesterday, when it went off again. It did so again this morning. It's pretty obvious that outgassing from the batteries is setting off the detector; after several days of low charge the batteries have been charging, and presumably generating hydrogen.

The battery compartment lid does not seal well-- one corner is raised up a bit due to it hitting a bundle of wires that are fixed in place by a plastic loop screwed to the dinette seat frame. I have a choice to fix this: (1) unscrew the loop and let the wires hang down a bit so that the lid fits tight or (2) add more foam insulation to the underside of the battery compartment lid so that it will raise up a bit and hopefully clear the wires. What is the best approach here? Thanks.

Choice (3): relocate the sensor. ETI has recently been installing it across the hall in 21's.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Carl-

I'm sure you've discussed this in another thread, but if you don't mind repeating, please tell me what brand and capacity AGMs you bought.

Mike, I purchased my AGMs from Lifeline after speaking with lots of people, some professionals in both the RV and solar industries. I thought about moving the alarm to save the added cost but wasn't sure how I could patch/cover the hole which was in a highly visible location. I would be curious how those who did relocate their alarms addressed the rather large hole left behind. While I would have come up with something, another huge factor was NOT having to access a difficult location every couple of months to check/top off electrolyte levels. More expensive yes, but I personally will never go back to flooded leads as long as I own my current trailer.

[padlin]

Wonder if sealing up the back of the alarm would help, looks like the vents for the sensor are in the front. Might help minimize the fumes in the bench from effecting it.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Mike, I purchased my AGMs from Lifeline after speaking with lots of people, some professionals in both the RV and solar industries. I thought about moving the alarm to save the added cost but wasn't sure how I could patch/cover the hole which was in a highly visible location. I would be curious how those who did relocate their alarms addressed the rather large hole left behind. While I would have come up with something, another huge factor was NOT having to access a difficult location every couple of months to check/top off electrolyte levels. More expensive yes, but I personally will never go back to flooded leads as long as I own my current trailer.

Hi: C&G in FL... Maybe they left the hole open to prevent mice from making another one. I have to type this quietly as we've never had the propane detector go off. We did plug up the exhaust from the furnace and set off the CO2 one once!!! YIKES Fridge shut down... you bet. Our grands discover a nifty little switch in a plastic container and had little fingers to turn it OFF!!!SHEESH!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Mike, I purchased my AGMs from Lifeline after speaking with lots of people, some professionals in both the RV and solar industries. I thought about moving the alarm to save the added cost but wasn't sure how I could patch/cover the hole which was in a highly visible location. I would be curious how those who did relocate their alarms addressed the rather large hole left behind. While I would have come up with something, another huge factor was NOT having to access a difficult location every couple of months to check/top off electrolyte levels. More expensive yes, but I personally will never go back to flooded leads as long as I own my current trailer.

Carl behind our detector was a good deal of wasted space so after moving detector , made opening larger , ordered door from Escape and now have another cabinet . At least on the 19's . Pat

[Greg A]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Mike, I purchased my AGMs from Lifeline after speaking with lots of people, some professionals in both the RV and solar industries. I thought about moving the alarm to save the added cost but wasn't sure how I could patch/cover the hole which was in a highly visible location. I would be curious how those who did relocate their alarms addressed the rather large hole left behind. While I would have come up with something, another huge factor was NOT having to access a difficult location every couple of months to check/top off electrolyte levels. More expensive yes, but I personally will never go back to flooded leads as long as I own my current trailer.

Carl has good points on going to the AGM's on the 21. The propane detector is indicating the presence of the hydrogen gas from the batteries and moving it doesn't solve the root problem. For me, I would want the peace of mind that the hydrogen gas wasn't present in the interior of my trailer. Inhaling hydrogen gas has some potential for health issues.

[elongest]

I agree with Greg. I contacted a company that makes anti-splash/water vapor battery caps for industrial and solar batteries. I asked about a battery cap with a hose fitting for venting. That way the gas could go to a manifold and be vented outside with a semi sealed hose system. Kind of an adaptation of the water auto fill system. They indicated they had thought about such a cap but thought there would be no/limited demand for the caps. I like the AGM idea but my billfold does not at this point.
Eddie

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Carl-

I'm sure you've discussed this in another thread, but if you don't mind repeating, please tell me what brand and capacity AGMs you bought.

Mike I think if I had your situation , I would definetly change out those batteries . Pat

[float5]

Some of the putty some have mentioned is seen in this photo. I have never looked at it closely. Don't know if it has to be put a certain way. Do you all with the problems have this putty?

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by float5

Some of the putty some have mentioned is seen in this photo. I have never looked at it closely. Don't know if it has to be put a certain way. Do you all with the problems have this putty?

It's actually electrical conduit sealant, available as a good sized block from Lowe's/Home Depot for $6 - $8. It never hardens. You can roll it into ropes (like Play Doh) and work it up into the crack between the battery box and its lid. But that becomes a PITA every time you decide to check the battery's/batteries' electrolyte levels.

[float5]

We have been in the battery box quite a few times now and I never do anything to the sealant. Just put the lid back down the way it was. I was wondering if everyone had this sealant, which some have referred to as putty.

If not sealed well with it, perhaps it can be added to, or moved a little, to seal better. I do realize now though that many if not most do not have this kind of box at all. Ours has sealed well, I guess, so far. Never deal with the sealant. Yours might have been placed badly? Of course, if others do not have this kind of box, it is another problem.

[padlin]

FWIW, I believe the original putty used by ETI is Butyl rubber tape from any camper supply, the stuff a few have used is duct seal putty from HD or Lowes.

Just my opinion, but from using both the Butyl is easier to remove.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Bill and Earline

Choice (3): relocate the sensor. ETI has recently been installing it across the hall in 21's.

For the new 21s that have the sensor on the driver's side-- is it wired into the 12V distribution panel or directly to the batteries as mine was?

[nathanj04011]

Our propane detector alarm has been going off fairly constantly this summer, since I opened the battery box for the first time. There is no propane present, verified by the stove not being able to light.

I'm pretty sure its the batteries and hydrogen, because if I run the fan or open the windows, the detector goes from red and that most awful screeching, to the green light and silence. I don't seem to be able to get the lid on tight enough to seal the gases inside.

With the 2016 5.0TA, the detector is on the drivers side dinette bench a couple of inches above the floor level and a couple of inches from the refrigerator wall.

I just last week discovered that if I leave the bench lid open above the detector, even with no windows or fan running, the alarm won't go off.

Why would the lid being open make a difference?

The good news is that when we camp, most always we have either the fan and windows open or the AC running, so it doesn't seem to be triggered. If it does go off, I know exactly what wires I will need to cut.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by nathanj04011

... I don't seem to be able to get the lid on tight enough to seal the gases inside. ...

Nathan, You shouldn't need to "seal the gases inside" the battery box. The battery gases should vent out of the battery box through a tube to the outside. See photos of our 21's venting below. Are you sure they vented your battery box? I know one Escape owner who pointed out during his orientation that his battery box had not been vented, and they drilled the hole in the wall and the box and installed the box vent while he watched and waited.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by padlin

FWIW, I believe the original putty used by ETI is Butyl rubber tape from any camper supply, the stuff a few have used is duct seal putty from HD or Lowes.

Just my opinion, but from using both the Butyl is easier to remove.

A year and a half ago when I first addressed false propane alarms in my 5.0TA, I called ETI and asked what they used to seal the battery box, I was told electrical conduit sealant, as I stated in post # 72. Like butyl tape, it does not harden. Having experience with butyl rubber tape, it's somewhat softer consistency, and its proclivity to displace when it is "squeezed," I do not believe it would be an appropriate substance for use in sealing the battery box.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Nathan, You shouldn't need to "seal the gases inside" the battery box. The battery gases should vent out of the battery box through a tube to the outside. See photos of our 21's venting below. Are you sure they vented your battery box? I know one Escape owner who pointed out during his orientation that his battery box had not been vented, and they drilled the hole in the wall and the box and installed the box vent while he watched and waited.

Dale, yes he should. The problem being addressed in this thread has occurred in many early 5.0TAs before the propane alarm was relocated further away from the battery box. Hydrogen is lighter than air and it rises to the top of the box. The venting tube exits well below the top of the box. Unless the lid is tightly sealed (one look tells you it really isn't), rising hydrogen will leak. You are right that Mark's battery box was not vented and they did it when discovered at orientation, but vented or not, it would not have addressed the issue at hand. The reason Nathan's alarm doesn't go off when the bench lid is open is because the minute amount of hydrogen gas needed to set of the alarm is rising to the ceiling of the trailer rather than accumulating near the alarm itself. I spent hours and hours working on this problem in my 5.0TA with its "properly" vented battery box. There only actions that one can take are:
1) Put up with false alarms and be frequently rattled,
2) Disconnect the alarms power source and vent the storage compartment (but the problem will recur),
3) Seal the lid to a point that nothing can escape the battery box,
4) Relocate the alarm to the other side of the trailer,
5) Replace the flooded lead battery/batteries with AGMs.

[nathanj04011]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Are you sure they vented your battery box?

Thanks War Eagle. Yes, the was vented. I think that Escape had somehow got the box air tight when the originally installed the batteries, and when I checked the water this spring, it must have "unsealed" the box allowing the gases to escape. That seems to be the theory on this thread.