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Old 07-25-2018, 09:19 AM   #1
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5.0TA build sheet - spray foam?

After many months of soaking up tons of wonderful information and advice on the forum, we're finding that doing our build sheet is pretty straightforward....except for choosing a fabric, of course

The one option I still have some questions on is the spray foam insulation underneath, so I'm asking for your input and clarification on a couple of aspects of it. We're in Texas, but do travel all over the US and have experienced our share of cold nights, but not many sub-freezing temps. I have the impression that the gray and fresh water tanks cover a fair amount of the underside of the trailer toward the back, and that the center section is pretty open with the fiberglass shell exposed in a couple of large rectangular areas, is that correct? I am thinking that foam on the tanks doesn't really add much insulating value to the trailer over what a tank of water is already doing, and we have never camped in weather cold enough to freeze our tanks. But the other floor space does seem like it would benefit from insulation, just not sure whether the foam is the way to go or if those spaces would not be too difficult to insulate with thick foam board. I view the foam insulation as helping the trailer stay comfy and am not worried about holding tanks freezing - in any case, the dump valve neck is the first thing to freeze and I don't think the foam completely covers that anyway.

The other thing new to me with this trailer is having the fresh tank mounted outside, on our old rig it was inside so fresh water freezing in cold temps was never an issue. The small supply line from the bottom of the fresh tank up to the water pump seems very exposed to me - is that prone to freezing in cold temps, making your fresh water supply inaccessible? And when you get the foam insulation, does it cover that fresh water supply line?
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:41 AM   #2
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I'll give it a shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmurphy02 View Post
I have the impression that the gray and fresh water tanks cover a fair amount of the underside of the trailer toward the back, and that the center section is pretty open with the fiberglass shell exposed in a couple of large rectangular areas, is that correct? YES I am thinking that foam on the tanks doesn't really add much insulating value to the trailer over what a tank of water is already doing, and we have never camped in weather cold enough to freeze our tanks. But the other floor space does seem like it would benefit from insulation, just not sure whether the foam is the way to go or if those spaces would not be too difficult to insulate with thick foam board. I view the foam insulation as helping the trailer stay comfy and am not worried about holding tanks freezing - in any case, the dump valve neck is the first thing to freeze and I don't think the foam completely covers that anyway.

The other thing new to me with this trailer is having the fresh tank mounted outside, on our old rig it was inside so fresh water freezing in cold temps was never an issue. The small supply line from the bottom of the fresh tank up to the water pump seems very exposed to me - is that prone to freezing in cold temps, making your fresh water supply inaccessible? Don't know, I have the foam and it has not frozen when we've gone through cold nights with above freezing days. I would agree it looks to be a weak point for freezing. If it's going to be freezing day and night for more then 24 hrs I drain the lines and the tank. And when you get the foam insulation, does it cover that fresh water supply line? YES
The first image shows the fresh tank and the feed line, at least on my 2015. These are all just prior to getting the foam sprayed on. Don't have pics of after the foam.

Even with the foam the floor gets fairly cold, we find carpet takes care of that. Would really have to compare 2 trailers side by side, 1 with and 1 without foam, to see how much the foam really helps in both cold and hot temps. I;ve gotten the most benefit from the foam when running over road hazards. On mine, everything between the frame is covered with a couple inches of foam, again this was in 2014.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 002.JPG (82.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 003.JPG (102.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 004.JPG (131.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 005.JPG (79.0 KB, 23 views)
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmurphy02 View Post
After many months of soaking up tons of wonderful information and advice on the forum, we're finding that doing our build sheet is pretty straightforward....except for choosing a fabric, of course

The one option I still have some questions on is the spray foam insulation underneath, so I'm asking for your input and clarification on a couple of aspects of it. We're in Texas, but do travel all over the US and have experienced our share of cold nights, but not many sub-freezing temps. I have the impression that the gray and fresh water tanks cover a fair amount of the underside of the trailer toward the back, and that the center section is pretty open with the fiberglass shell exposed in a couple of large rectangular areas, is that correct? I am thinking that foam on the tanks doesn't really add much insulating value to the trailer over what a tank of water is already doing, and we have never camped in weather cold enough to freeze our tanks. But the other floor space does seem like it would benefit from insulation, just not sure whether the foam is the way to go or if those spaces would not be too difficult to insulate with thick foam board. I view the foam insulation as helping the trailer stay comfy and am not worried about holding tanks freezing - in any case, the dump valve neck is the first thing to freeze and I don't think the foam completely covers that anyway.

The other thing new to me with this trailer is having the fresh tank mounted outside, on our old rig it was inside so fresh water freezing in cold temps was never an issue. The small supply line from the bottom of the fresh tank up to the water pump seems very exposed to me - is that prone to freezing in cold temps, making your fresh water supply inaccessible? And when you get the foam insulation, does it cover that fresh water supply line?
I'm assuming that you are wanting to camp four season.

Order the Winterizing T Valve option. With it, you can put a water container inside and feed the water pump from it leaving the fresh water tank empty. We made the mistake of going to Yellowstone in May - it was whiteout snowing, the power was out at fishing bridge RV camp, and the water supply frozen. We used a 5 gal water container (it fit under the bench seat), put the hose from the t valve in it, drained the fresh water tank, and didn't have a problem. PS. don't go to Yellowstone in May unless you like to camp in below freezing temps!

Without a heat source, that thin layer of foam over the bottom of the fresh water tank isn't going to keep it from freezing very long. Also, the foam makes it a pain to work on things - find out where things are, cut out the foam, do your thing, and then refoam. The insulating board would be a lot easier to deal with if you want insulation.
Adding underfloor insulation
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:17 AM   #4
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On hot days, on a black tar pad, with sun warming up the area around our Scamp/Casita, we found the floor would heat up the camper even more. Once we went to insulated floors that phenomenon ended. We want insulation for warm weather as much as cold!

Enjoy,

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Old 07-25-2018, 10:25 AM   #5
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Had the foam on Escape #1, #2, #3 and will have it on #4- keeps it warmer and cooler. The water supply is covered, the only exposed portion of the fresh tank is the drain. The first foam were yellow, now that are spray pained black.Covers the entire under portion of the trailer and protects it from road debris.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:26 AM   #6
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I guess it depends on where your at and how cold it is
We camped at 17 deg below zero in our Casita which has an uninsulatrd floor
When we woke up in the morning our shoes were frozen to the floor
Had to take a hair dryer to thaw them free
If I was going to buy an Escape I would want the insulated floor , not so much to keep the tanks from freezing but to keep my feet from freezing
If we lived in a southern state like Iowa then it would be a toss up
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I guess it depends on where your at and how cold it is
We camped at 17 deg below zero in our Casita which has an uninsulatrd floor
When we woke up in the morning our shoes were frozen to the floor
Had to take a hair dryer to thaw them free
If I was going to buy an Escape I would want the insulated floor , not so much to keep the tanks from freezing but to keep my feet from freezing
If we lived in a southern state like Iowa then it would be a toss up
17 below? That's the time to start thinking about camping somewhere down south. Unless I screw up like on the trip to the Escape rally, I don't go north until the temps here start to go over 90 deg and come back home before the temps drop below 50. I have to wear a jacket if the temps get below 70!
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
17 below? Unless I screw up like on the trip to the Escape rally, I don't go north until the temps here start to go over 90 deg and come back home before the temps drop below 50. I have to wear a jacket if the temps get below 70!
Itís really hard to go to or from Northern Wisconsin to the Southern US in the middle of winter
without experiencing below zero weather . We got trapped in Illinois by an 14Ē snowfall and
Iíd rather have below zero weather
Remember we are only about 6 weeks away from our first frost
Our high temp for tomorrow is supposed to be in the mid 60ís and we will be camping and enjoying the nice weather
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
Don't have pics of after the foam.
You have at least one! Found here:
www.escapeforum.org/forums/f38/spray-foam-is-worth-getting-7272-2.html#post151967

I attached a couple of others I found too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg foam 21.jpg (12.9 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg dump valves foam.jpg (13.4 KB, 109 views)
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
I'll give it a shot



The first image shows the fresh tank and the feed line, at least on my 2015. These are all just prior to getting the foam sprayed on. Don't have pics of after the foam.

Even with the foam the floor gets fairly cold, we find carpet takes care of that. Would really have to compare 2 trailers side by side, 1 with and 1 without foam, to see how much the foam really helps in both cold and hot temps. I;ve gotten the most benefit from the foam when running over road hazards. On mine, everything between the frame is covered with a couple inches of foam, again this was in 2014.

Thanks for the photos, Bob. I didn't realize the underside of the Escapes were so exposed. Hmmm . . .
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