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Old 04-03-2016, 04:27 PM   #21
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We rented a Winnebago in Alaska, GAH, last summer and the person doing the orientation told us to be careful with the foot flush toilet. It's easy to let your foot off the pedal to quickly, the pedal snaps back and breaks the mechanism inside the toilet. It's an expensive repair.
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Old 04-03-2016, 04:54 PM   #22
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Bought the alloy wheels but wouldn't do so again. For the money I think there are better ones out there. Why Eacape's vendor pre-mounts the tires with weights on the front of an alloy wheel is beyond me- do you ever see that on your car's alloy wheels? Unfortunately when you need re-balancing the removed weights leave a permanent mar on the face of the wheel.
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:11 PM   #23
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Why Eacape's vendor pre-mounts the tires with weights on the front of an alloy wheel is beyond me- do you ever see that on your car's alloy wheels?
Not normally (although I have had clipped-on weights on the outer lip of certain alloy wheels on cars), but cars typically have substantial hub face offset now (e.g. 50 mm), and most styles place the spoke out nearly to the outer rim. That makes it possible to place the outer weights inside the spokes and still have them effective. With the zero to 6 mm offset typical of trailer wheels, and deep-dish styles, it seems likely to be difficult to hide the outer weights.
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:15 PM   #24
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Bought the alloy wheels but wouldn't do so again. For the money I think there are better ones out there.
I suppose one could ask if it would be possible to supply the wheels (and presumably tires) to the factory ready-to-install for a credit in place of the stock tires and steel wheels. That could even allow the use of a different brand, size, and type of tire... although I assume that Reace would require pre-approval since the manufacturer is responsible for the roadworthiness of the trailer as it is delivered.

Without customer-supplied wheels, the only other way to get alloys - besides ordering them as a factory option - would be to replace the steel wheels... and perhaps sell them for a few bucks each on Craigslist.
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:47 PM   #25
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Not normally (although I have had clipped-on weights on the outer lip of certain alloy wheels on cars), but cars typically have substantial hub face offset now (e.g. 50 mm), and most styles place the spoke out nearly to the outer rim. That makes it possible to place the outer weights inside the spokes and still have them effective. With the zero to 6 mm offset typical of trailer wheels, and deep-dish styles, it seems likely to be difficult to hide the outer weights.
Not sure what you're saying there; I do know when we bought new tires recently I was asked if I wanted the weights on the back(inside)of the wheel and that's where they went with no problems.
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:56 PM   #26
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Not sure what you're saying there; I do know when we bought new tires recently I was asked if I wanted the weights on the back of the wheel and that's where they went with no problems.
That's because trailer wheels are typically zero offset and your tug wheels are positive (or maybe negative) offset and that allows the weights to be on the back of the wheel.


It's also the reason you can't just use any ole 15" wheel with a bolt pattern 5x4.5 and use it on a trailer.
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Old 04-03-2016, 06:08 PM   #27
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Not sure what you're saying there; I do know when we bought new tires recently I was asked if I wanted the weights on the back of the wheel and that's where they went with no problems.
The "back" of your car or pickup wheels can still be pretty close to the front, because of that offset.

To balance a wheel and tire assembly you need to place weights in suitable places in two dimensions. The obvious one is to be at the right point around the rim, opposite the heaviest point around the circumference of the wheel&tire. If you just do that, you can get the wheel and tire in static balance: if you place it face-up on a pivot point in the centre, it stays level instead of tipping to the heavy side. Decades ago, that's all that was done, using a bubble level (and that's all some people do now - avoid them!).

The other dimension is along the rotating axis. A weight on the outer lip and another one on the opposite side of the wheel on the inner lip will compensate for a similar but opposite uneven distribution of mass in the wheel and tire. You only know you have this right when you spin the wheel, which is why it is called dynamic balance. All cars should have their wheels dynamically balanced, on machines that work by spinning the wheel & tire and measuring the shaking forces.

To be effective for dynamic balance, the weights need to be at different positions along the rotating axis, so some are more inboard and some are more outboard (and the weight has to be chosen to go with those positions). The old method (still used with steel wheels) was to clip them on the inner and outer lips, but with alloys now commonly not having a lip shape that works for that - and people not wanting clips on their alloys - the normal approach is to glue them to the wheel; the outer weights are often far into the wheel, but the outer weights must still be well outboard of the inner weights. It could take a lot of metal to dynamically balance a wheel and tire if all the weights are on the back of a trailer wheel.

The Wikipedia page on tire balance isn't bad, but eventually gets into math and 3D dynamics.
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Old 04-03-2016, 08:11 PM   #28
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Brian, what you say may be empirically correct, however there are methods being employed to use a single weight on the inside of the of the wheel.
SmartWeight(R) Balancing Technology

The problem with the weights being stuck on the outside then being removed is it breaks the clear coat and starts the corrosion process.

I haven't seen a spin balance machine used in over 40 years in California where I've bought tires anyway. I bought the Maxxis from Discount Tire(called America's Tire here) where they set their balancing machines to achieve different types of balances, including inside the wheel only.
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Old 04-03-2016, 10:29 PM   #29
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I haven't seen a spin balance machine used in over 40 years in California where I've bought tires anyway.
Ross, I assume that you mean that you haven't seen a bubble balancing machine (which only does a static balance) in that time; spin balancers are used to do a dynamic balance. That time period makes sense - some people still just bubble balance for trailers (Harbor Freight will still sell you a Pittsburgh Portable Wheel Balancer for $80), but most small trailer technology (suspension, bearings, brakes, tires) is four decades behind the times so it fits.

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I bought the Maxxis from Discount Tire(called America's Tire here) where they set their balancing machines to achieve different types of balances, including inside the wheel only.
I think that's typical now. What can be done is limited by the wheel shape, which is one reason that the machines have choices.

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... there are methods being employed to use a single weight on the inside of the of the wheel.
SmartWeight(R) Balancing Technology
Yes, if you're clever or flexible enough sometimes you can get close enough with only one weight; that manufacturer (Hunter, which I think is big in the business) claims that it can be done with one 53% of the time. You can't arbitrarily decide that it will be on the inside; if it works out that way... great. The screen shots on the their website indicate that the single weight is achieved by tolerating more residual imbalance.
Quote:
Labor time was also reduced when 53% of the wheels were dynamically balanced with only one weight required.
Their emphasis on labour time tells me why this is important to them, and it's not effectiveness, accuracy, or even appearance.

If you are only static balancing, you can of course put the one weight on the inside rim... that will make the dynamic imbalance worse, but if we're bubble balancing we're not too concerned about doing a good job.

The point was just that to me, weights on the outside of a trailer wheel don't necessarily indicate an inferior balancing job.
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Old 04-03-2016, 10:48 PM   #30
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Spin? Arrgghh, I did mean bubble Anyway, I totally agree it is not inferior to put the weights on the outside- it just causes potential problems and if not necessary I would prefer not to have them.

I thought the Hunter machine stresses savings in the lead weights themselves. If you read the testimonials from their customers (tire shop & automotive dealers) that, along with fewer customer complaints & redos were the main points being made.

Edit: will check tomorrow to verify dynamic balancing was done.
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