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08-23-2016, 04:54 PM
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#161
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kstock11
I don't think the sound of the air conditioner is half as offensive as that of generators.
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Generators can be very loud, and will inherently be louder than an air conditioner using the same amount of power that the generator is producing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstock11
I really get offended by the fact that they are on the side opposite where the owners sit.
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Although this placement may invite irresponsible use, I think it is the only rational place to put the generator. It puts the exhaust out where there isn't an awning or people, it leaves accessible storage compartments on the door side (because the compartment which is a generator is not storage), it keeps the noise away from the users in isolated locations, and (at least in my motorhome) it puts the generator exhaust in the same location as the engine exhaust. Notice that the water heater and furnace - which produce exhaust and make noise - are on the street side of an Escape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
I agree and can attest to a tenting trip disturbed by a Class A rig that rolled out a construction generator.
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Fortunately, most Class A motorhomes - at least the larger ones - come with a much quieter built-in generator now as standard equipment. Even those are loud compared to the best inverter-based generators with their variable-speed feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
The good news is this A/C mod has sound benefits both inside and outside the trailer regardless of power source.
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The lower outside noise is a good indication of higher efficiency. As someone who usually has the windows open, I appreciate that.
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08-23-2016, 04:56 PM
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#162
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Escape used to offer the 9200 BTU a/c which I optioned for my first 19' Escape in 2012. I believe it was the Penguin model. It worked off the 2000 watt generator and was more quiet than the bigger Coleman. I tried to get the digital thermostat then but Reace was unable to provide such for the smaller unit. I had the smaller 9200 in my Lance and with the digital thermostat was able to get 2 speeds with it. Thus when Escape offered the digital with the 11000 BTU and the 9200 was no longer an option, I tried that combo. With the 2 speed fan the Coleman 11000 was a lot quieter than the single speed Coleman without the digital thermostat.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-23-2016, 05:43 PM
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#163
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2013 19' & 2013 15B
Posts: 2,636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Generators can be very loud, and will inherently be louder than an air conditioner using the same amount of power that the generator is producing...
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I was actually quite surprised at how loud the air conditioner in my 19' is when listening from the outside. While staying at Dead Horse Point State Park in Utah, I took a walk around the campground in the evening and could hear our air conditioner roaring from about 1/2 way across the campground. I was actually a little bit embarrassed to use it after that as there were quite a few tenters in the campground that would likely be disturbed by the noise. We made sure to not use the A/C overnight during the quiet hours.
__________________
2013 19' \ 2013 15B, 2020 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." - 1907, Maurice Switzer
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08-23-2016, 07:28 PM
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#164
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Midcoast, Maine
Trailer: 2016 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 435
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We used our Yamaha 2000w generator this past weekend in a USFS campground in NH. I was slightly surprised at the noise it made. I did not run it much, as it made me feel rather conspicuous. However, there were others running generators, including the campground host.
I also felt conspicuous closing the trailer door, which we have to slam rather hard in order latch. I thought "what if someone in the tent in the next site is trying to sleep and we keep slamming the door?" So I suppose I could be guilted when I make almost any noise. And people could find almost any noise offensive as well. What to do? What to do?
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08-23-2016, 07:43 PM
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#165
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
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Called Escape the next day after pickup as the door needed to be really slammed to close which was not the case with our 2010 17B. Was told they went to a new gasket and the tight fit was normal. Two years later it is better.
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08-23-2016, 07:54 PM
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#166
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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I have never slammed my door. Never. I close it most of the way and give a firm push on the door, not the handle.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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08-23-2016, 07:54 PM
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#167
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Yes, it is far better to be tight initially so that later there are no gaps, as others have mentioned a concern about the gaps around the doors in some early models.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-23-2016, 08:11 PM
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#168
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice-breaker
I was actually quite surprised at how loud the air conditioner in my 19' is when listening from the outside. While staying at Dead Horse Point State Park in Utah, I took a walk around the campground in the evening and could hear our air conditioner roaring from about 1/2 way across the campground. I was actually a little bit embarrassed to use it after that as there were quite a few tenters in the campground that would likely be disturbed by the noise. We made sure to not use the A/C overnight during the quiet hours.
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By the looks of this beautiful campground on Google Earth you were enjoying the convenience of power service and not contending with generators, but fairly close proximity to neighbors with only low and sparse vegetation to help dampen any noise. This is a perfect example where the split system with quiet condensing section I installed would have been hardly noticeable by your neighbor, let alone across the campground...allowing you to use the A/C day or night guilt free.
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08-23-2016, 08:25 PM
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#169
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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One issue with it being too quiet inside is when one of those shade monsters pull in next door and they turn on their dual 50 amp air-conditioning systems while operating their on board generator. Then you may wish you had a louder air conditioning system to create some "white noise"....
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-23-2016, 08:37 PM
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#170
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011
We used our Yamaha 2000w generator this past weekend in a USFS campground in NH. I was slightly surprised at the noise it made. I did not run it much, as it made me feel rather conspicuous. However, there were others running generators, including the campground host.
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I had a similar experience recently at a small lakeside campground in NJ. NJ state parks do not have any utilities (generally cater to tent camping which I grew up doing and can appreciate). The Honda EU2000 was also a bit louder than I expected. It was reasonable when placed at the corner of the site with a decent length cord and exhaust pointing away from others. Also used a handmade insulated enclosure loosely placed around the generator on 3 sides and top. It was made by my father out of 2" Owens Corning FOAMULAR polystyrene that was left over from a custom Scamp floor insulation project. It made a huge difference. It was a very hot weekend and still I felt bad and really only ran it to cool the trailer down for lunch and before going to bed.
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08-23-2016, 09:33 PM
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#171
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
One issue with it being too quiet inside is when one of those shade monsters pull in next door and they turn on their dual 50 amp air-conditioning systems while operating their on board generator. Then you may wish you had a louder air conditioning system to create some "white noise"....
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That could be easily solved with a portable fan, rain/ocean waves music, etc. but aren't we chasing our tail now?
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08-23-2016, 09:49 PM
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#172
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Winnebago sold their motorhomes with a one-unit (not split) air conditioning system mounted under the floor, which they called True Air Residential Central Air Conditioning. It was quieter (according to both Winnebago and owners), and didn't stick up high on the roof. One unit handled a large Class A motorhome, which required two units when rooftop air conditioners were used, and it used less power. They dropped it because they ran out of room under the floor, and now use conventional rooftop units; however, they kept the TrueAir name, and call it TrueAir® Maximum Comfort A/C. The old system wasn't split, and probably wasn't variable-speed, but it was a better and quieter system... and being better wasn't enough to keep in in production.
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Brian even if the rooftop and underfloor units weren't variable speed aren't they inherently quieter systems (at least inside) because the units are ducted through the larger trailer and not distributed through a plenum right into the space with hardly any attenuation? Also the method of construction and rigidity of the shell or framing/insulation on the particular trailer would matter in reducing overall noise and vibration.
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08-23-2016, 11:10 PM
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#173
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
Brian even if the rooftop and underfloor units weren't variable speed aren't they inherently quieter systems (at least inside) because the units are ducted through the larger trailer and not distributed through a plenum right into the space with hardly any attenuation?
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Yes, the ducting and construction are important, but in these Winnebagos even the rooftop units are ducted. The central system just avoided having two units (in larger motorhomes), and moved the compressor noise to under the floor where it is less audible. Being better wasn't enough to keep it going.
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08-23-2016, 11:21 PM
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#174
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
One issue with it being too quiet inside is when one of those shade monsters pull in next door and they turn on their dual 50 amp air-conditioning systems while operating their on board generator. Then you may wish you had a louder air conditioning system to create some "white noise"....
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Well, they don't really have 50-amp air conditioning systems (just 50 amp capacity per side power cords and panels), but that is the biggest reason for the generator for some owners. Mine has a stock factory equipment generator sized to run both rooftop air conditioners at the same time, but it's only 5500 watts; that's less than 23 amps per side.
Our motorhome's air conditioners have ducted outlets, but direct return and single-speed, so they're annoying loud. They're also out of production, with parts no longer available. Dave's installation would be a nice improvement, and the better efficiency would mean less direct air conditioner noise outside, plus less generator noise when we (rarely, and not in a campground) run the generator.
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08-24-2016, 10:33 AM
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#175
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: '87 Bigfoot 20DLX 5er (sold) - 2017 Escape 5.0 TA: Sep-17
Posts: 523
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Custom Air Conditioning Retrofit
Dave, this is incredible, not just the ideas, but also the quality of execution!
I'm fascinated by the possibilities this raises. The benefits are dramatic and downside seems to be more esthetics than anything else, at least until we have more "in use" data about durability.
I have a 2017 5.0 TA on order for Sept 2017. For me, the optimal place for the condenser on the back and the air handler over the dinette.
Although ETI is not willing to install one, they might be willing to install some of the infrastructure, especially if approached by more than one of us. Perhaps they would be willing to do some the following:
1. extend the bumper slightly, move the spare over, and install a mounting plate for the condenser
2. stub out the two 120V drops (the inside unit could extend from the roof top A/C wiring)
3. install the digital thermostat with appropriate wiring
4. adapt the shelf over the dinette to accommodate the dimensions of the air handler
5. run the control wiring, copper lines, and condensate tube
If they were willing to do these things, the rest of the installation would be a piece of cake for an A/C guy. There might even be an A/C firm in Chilliwack that would be interested in providing the hardware and installing it. All in, this would probably be twice the cost of a conventional A/C, but I'd be willing to pay double to get this on my dream trailer. In Texas A/C is an essential.
The peace and quiet would be priceless!
When it's noisy outside, I could use earplugs (as I do now) or a white sound generator, but that's only an occasional problem.
At some point lithium batteries will become competitive. When Tesla's Gigafactory is fully on line, A/C on solar might be possibile for a high efficiency unit. I'd need more solar panels, but even if I could only use A/C during the day, that would be great.
Technomadia has A/C on solar. Talk about the bleeding edge!
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08-24-2016, 11:25 AM
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#176
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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I would not give too much hope in this joint venture. Escape must meet certain requirements and leaving a "rough in" with electrical and copper tubing I'm sure is not on their list. I have asked for the spare to be moved in the past and Reace has done a marvelous job in weight and keeping the Escape trouble free and easy to tow. Any structural change on the exterior is frowned upon.
That said, anything you do after taking delivery is fine but asking them to participate, I doubt it.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-24-2016, 11:33 AM
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#177
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,064
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Unless something has changed, ETI won't run propane lines unless they're also hooked up to an appliance. I tried and I asked. I wanted the propane line run for the stove, but capped off and no stove mounted. That was a "no," can't do it.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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08-24-2016, 11:38 AM
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#178
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Exactly, everything has to be hooked up, not roughed in. Same for 120v electrical. They will run a 12v drop, but that is their limit.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-24-2016, 11:46 AM
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#179
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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I'd say if you want to tackle this, then the OP has proven it can be done. I don't think Escape would be involved in any "prep" work for such a mod during their build.
As for the stock AC however, we are very glad to have it and it works well. Yes, it's noisier, but it doesn't really bother us. We can sleep right through its cycles on a hot night. It helps however to have the digital thermostat so it doesn't have to run constantly on high.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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08-24-2016, 02:13 PM
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#180
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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I can't speak for Escape, but I'll note: - Low-voltage wiring has been installed at the factory ("roughed in") to support installations by owners of equipment such as battery monitors and backup cameras.
- If I recall correctly, 120V AC wiring has reportedly been "roughed in" at the factory, as the air conditioning preparation. If the circuit is not connected to a breaker in the panel, there is no risk. This is somewhat different from roughing in a circuit to potential air conditioning unit on the tongue or bumper, because those locations are not part (even optional) of the trailer's electrical system design.
- Tubing for air conditioning - not connected at either end - is very different from a branch of the active propane system, capped off. The air conditioning tubing (which would be empty at installation) would not affect the design or operation of any other system, including the propane distribution plumbing.
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