Failure of Solar Panel Retention

[Mike Lewis]

I have one of the older, smaller factory solar panels that was not originally attached with bolts. Yesterday I took my trailer across the border to ETI where they attached the panel to the roof with bolts. It looks like they used an L-shaped bracket riveted to the panel frame, and bolts to hold the bracket to the roof. Inside the trailer the bolt ends are covered by... what are these things called, upholstery buttons?

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

For those not familiar, here is a photo of the bolt-through solar panel mount from a February 2017 completion. I believe ETI is still using this method.

Originally Posted by jxoco

That is what they retro fitted to our 2013 17B when we took it to them for the recall.
The other end of the bolts are inside the overhead compartment for us.

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I have one of the older, smaller factory solar panels that was not originally attached with bolts. Yesterday I took my trailer across the border to ETI where they attached the panel to the roof with bolts. It looks like they used an L-shaped bracket riveted to the panel frame, and bolts to hold the bracket to the roof. Inside the trailer the bolt ends are covered by... what are these things called, upholstery buttons?

That's the method I'd use if I was retro-fitting panels. Personally I'd be a lot more comfortable going down the highway, getting buffeted from passing trucks, knowing the panel was through bolted.

I doubt any of these through bolted panels will have any issues in the future.

Ron

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I doubt any of these through bolted panels will have any issues in the future.

Me either. Other than a check of the sealant every few years, not much to go wrong there.

I just taped mine on.

[rbryan4]

My solar mount has no issues. I'm told there were 2 or 3 known instances of problems with the mounts, and thus they changed the mounting solution to the bolt through brackets. Why this would be characterized as a widespread problem with no end in sight, I do not know. The cables shown in the earlier part of this thread haven't been used for some time. My 19 had no such cables in 2015. Discussing the cables as an inferior mounting method is irrelevant now, since we know that, and it hasn't been used for several years. I'd much rather focus on solutions than problems of the past.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

since we know that, and it hasn't been used for several years. I'd much rather focus on solutions than problems of the past.

Ron

[BRietkerk]

Originally Posted by Parker

While waxing our 2013 Escape 19 today, I discovered that two of the solar panel retention cables provided as a retrofit by ETI have shredded in two. I would never have guessed such a thing would happen and still don't really understand it. I talked with Reace today and learned that there have been one or two other instances of this, so I suggest that all those who have installed these cables inspect them periodically. This happened on the curb side. The driver's side cables appear to be fine.

Reace is sending me some new cables to get us back on the road soon, but is also having some made with larger cables which he will forward. I understand they use pop rivets now instead of these hammer-in style rivets, which I'll try removing with a dremel. I understand it's hard to drill into the center pin as can be done easily with pop rivets.

I'm tempted to switch to sections of stainless steel hose clamps in lieu of the cables. There is quite a bit of flex in the roof, so the idea of the cables makes sense, but being so short, they're actually quite stiff in this application.

For obvious reasons, I'm happy I caught this issue when I did, and appreciate Reace's prompt response. Did I suggest that everyone check these things if installed on your panels?......I suggest you check them.

Thank you for the heads up. It caused me to go out and check our cables. I estimate our cables have been in service now for 16000+kM. So far there is no indication of any strand fraying. We are happy with the fix but will monitor the condition of our cables. Brian

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by BRietkerk

Thank you for the heads up. It caused me to go out and check our cables. I estimate our cables have been in service now for 16000+kM. So far there is no indication of any strand fraying. We are happy with the fix but will monitor the condition of our cables. Brian

Sort of like checking the wheel bearings from time to time.

[Viajante]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

No, this thread is NOT pointing out a problem with a newer method of attachment. The cables are an OLDER method, and for a different solar panel. It was a 2013 trailer. Mine is a 2015, and has no cables.

As I mentioned above, the cables haven't been used for many years.

The cable attachment method was changed to rails.

I believe the cable attachment method was never used on original installations. The cables were sent out in the last few years by ETI as a backup to possible failure of the glued panels.

The OP is alerting owners who had the cables installed relatively recently to check on the condition of the cables.

This is not an "old issue" , but a good alert about something fairly new.

[yardsale]

Regarding the frequency of failure. I think the original recall was for the 17' and at that time there had been something like 7 failures in 500 trailers. For better or worse, we haven't yet installed the bolt through retrofits. I visually inspect the seams every time we gas up. So far so good unless we get a rapid total failure without preceding signs of fatigue.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Viajante

I believe the cable attachment method was never used on original installations. The cables were sent out in the last few years by ETI as a backup to possible failure of the glued panels.

The OP is alerting owners who had the cables installed relatively recently to check on the condition of the cables.

This is not an "old issue" , but a good alert about something fairly new.

Thank you. The cables were a retrofit, provided in a very responsive way by ETI when they first learned of the problem with the early panels bonded to the roof. I was afraid my post would kick off a lot of criticism and after-the-fact engineering, but I thought it was more important to suggest that those who have the cables simply have a look in the interest of safety. We've towed our Escape 26,000 mostly trouble-free miles now; hopefully we'll double that in the next few years. I appreciate constructive discussion on the forum that helps us enjoy the experience.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I have one of the older, smaller factory solar panels that was not originally attached with bolts. Yesterday I took my trailer across the border to ETI where they attached the panel to the roof with bolts. It looks like they used an L-shaped bracket riveted to the panel frame, and bolts to hold the bracket to the roof. Inside the trailer the bolt ends are covered by... what are these things called, upholstery buttons?

Hey Mike, thanks for posting the photos. I think that's the way to go in my case. The cable attachments could be done differently (converted to some sort of bracket), but they go through the vertical sides of the bump-up in the roof, which could be okay on the curb side, but end up being over the head on the driver's side. I think I'll check with ETI about ordering a set of those brackets.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Viajante

I believe the cable attachment method was never used on original installations. The cables were sent out in the last few years by ETI as a backup to possible failure of the glued panels.

http://escapetrailer.com/wp-content/...elWarranty.pdf

[a602pmcc]

I too considered going without the retrofit. We are the second owners of a 2015 21' (May 2015 that we purchased in August 2016). I contacted ETI about other minor issues and they realized that our trailer did not have the additional reinforcements, and immediately sent them to us with installation instructions. I too, as others have expressed, had reservations about installing them -- drilling through the roof, potential problems with the vinyl, etc -- and I had already pulled it a thousand miles with no problems. So I took a couple of additional trips without incident.

However, the potential for disaster even though (highly?) unlikely, ultimately led me to bite the bullet and do the install. Turned out to be quick and easy. And, I can tell you my comfort level on the road went way up. As Donna says, YMMV, but I recommend it.

Paul

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by BRietkerk

Thank you for the heads up. It caused me to go out and check our cables. I estimate our cables have been in service now for 16000+kM. So far there is no indication of any strand fraying. We are happy with the fix but will monitor the condition of our cables. Brian

And this is the reason why this is such a valuable thread. A great caution to folks like you Brian, who do need to monitor these cables.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Santiago

I know adding a deflector has been mentioned before but seeing how cable is almost at the point of snapping seems to me that the panel is getting substantial lift forces, almost wing like.

I don't think the cable issue is an indication of any lifting of the panel; if the panel were actually moving (stretching the adhesive or flexing the body) and pulling hard enough on the cable to damage it (roughly a ton), the attaching hardware on the trailer side would likely fail first. The wind-whipped fatigue cause seems much more likely to me.

[StarvingHyena]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't think the cable issue is an indication of any lifting of the panel; if the panel were actually moving (stretching the adhesive or flexing the body) and pulling hard enough on the cable to damage it (roughly a ton), the attaching hardware on the trailer side would likely fail first. The wind-whipped fatigue cause seems much more likely to me.

I agree with Brian ... especially his last sentence. Just to put it another way - It looks to me like the cables were destroyed due to harmonic vibration .... ie just the right wind speed coupled with the 'perfect' length of cable causing vibration and resulting failure of the wire strands. This could also explain why the cables on the other side of the trailer did not fail. They were (perhaps) of just enough different length to not vibrate or vibrate at a different speed than the curb side cables.

Anyone doubting the power of harmonic vibration should Google " 'Gallopin' Gertie" and see the short video of the destruction of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge that was taken down by harmonic vibration.

If you have these same cable braces .... PLEASE switch to the bolt on brackets. I doubt that a pop rivet in fiberglass would even slow down the solar panel once it decided to take flight. Should your panel cause an injury, a resulting investigation would surely find you NEGLIGENT and this could be very hazardous to your wallet.

Way better to be safe than sorry,

Tom

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by StarvingHyena

If you have these same cable braces .... PLEASE switch to the bolt on brackets. I doubt that a pop rivet in fiberglass would even slow down the solar panel once it decided to take flight. Should your panel cause an injury, a resulting investigation would surely find you NEGLIGENT and this could be very hazardous to your wallet.

Way better to be safe than sorry,

Tom

Definitively no rivet through fiberglass roof but if it were my installation I would replace the three pop rivets attaching the L bracket to the solar panel frame. The cable fraying showed much stressing due to a variety of reasons already touched upon, including roof flexing. The three pop rivets in my view would be just as compromised as being aluminum they don't offer the same shear failure limit steel bolts offer or could likely have its head extrude out depending on nature of forces.

As I mentioned in another thread, Scamp roof rivets have been known to break due to flexing and yes the Scamp shell is rhino thick. I recall hole cutting shell to mount external electrical connector and I though I never get through it.

[pkgman51]

I'm one of those who is shy about putting holes in the roof for the "through" bolt retrofit Escape sent me to better secure the solar panel. As others have pointed out the failure rate is respectfully low, but not zero. So, I decided not to use the kit Escape sent me, just yet.
Having been notified by Escape failure was possible, and having received the retrofit kit, I felt both moral and legal responsibility to take action.
Again, since the failure rate is quite low, I decided to secure the panel to the air conditioner frame using 12 ga. electrical wire. There are two wires, one on each side of the air conditioner. If the mounts fail the wires will keep the solar panel from flying off the roof. The wires with regular documented inspection is enough to feel comfortable the panel will not be completely loose should the mount fail.
Gary

[Donna D.]

Please... be nice and let's get this thread back on topic.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Please... be nice

That sums it up perfectly.