Current top picks for tow vehicle for 21'

[Brian B-P]

Lock-up torque converters fixed most of the efficiency issue with automatics, and optimization of the controls and hydraulics fixed most of the rest, so the manual's efficiency advantage is pretty much gone.

Manuals are inherently simpler, but automatics have become very reliable, and they don't have a clutch which a driver can abuse to failure, so overall automatic reliability is probably just as good.

Long ago, automatics always had fewer ratios than manuals: 2-speed Powerglides versus 3-on-the-tree, 3-speed autos versus four-on-the-floor, 4-speed electronic automatics versus five-speeds... but 6-speeds came to automatics and manuals around the same time, and now most automatics have more ratios (8 to 10) than any available manual. I prefer shifting for myself, and it's great in my 6-speed car, but it's not very practical to manually shift and use all of 10 available ratios properly. If you want the engine at the optimal speed for efficiency or for power, you need a modern automatic box full of many gears, with a control system that selects that gear correctly... or a continuously variable transmission.

The leaves the control system. Manuals are controlled by the drivers, some of whom are very skilled and most of whom are only marginally competent. Most automatics now shift at decently rational points under normal conditions, but seem possessed by a spiteful idiot when you really need them to do something. What I find really frustrating is that they can always be forced to use a lower gear (as long as that choice doesn't make the engine exceed redline), but there is often no way to make then stay up to the desired gear for best efficiency.

[cpaharley2008]

The "tow mode" and my 8 speed automatic makes towing enjoyable. Downhills a tap on the brake and the engine keeps the speed when the brakes were tapped by down shifting. Since that speed is ore than likely too fast for some curves, a applying brakes accomplishes a slower speed to which the engine and transmission keeps. Quite seamless and a great set up on the Ram. Also the automatic sway and traction control is always working, with 4 wheel disc brakes I feel confident and with 4 wheel drive not afraid of what nature can throw at you, other than ice.

I highly recommend a vehicle with the integrated brake controller and "tow mode' selection, it really makes driving enjoyable. This is why I can drive sometimes for 18 hours and not be drained.....I'm not constantly fighting with the set up.

[rbryan4]

Mine has tow/haul mode, an excellent integrated brake controller, a 10 speed transmission and even pro trailer backup assist, but 18 hours driving? You can keep that Jim. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[cpaharley2008]

Do not forget the full sizes spare, capable for towing, something a lot of manufacturers are no longer providing these days....

[azjack]

Our 51 year old son bought a work car because he wanted to protect his new f150 from door dings, etc. the alternate reasoning was his about to be age 16 son should be able to drive a stick shift car just as him and his younger sister could at 16. His was a 49 ford and she had a Karma Ghia. Also son"s age 19 son has a performance car with a 6 speed manual and he has already learned to change the clutch by himself. All good experience and btw our son drives his work car to work across Phoenix daily.
At my age though I want a auto trans.
AZJack

[steve dunham]

Any 3/4 ton Ford , Chevy , GMC or Ram should be more than capable of towing any Escape trailer unless you plan on carrying 6 passengers or a bed full of concrete blocks
I find having to be constantly concerned about payload or GCWR or RAWR limits a real PITA
The concept of packing light looks good on paper but in reality from my experience it’s just me fooling myself .

[CharlesPou]

I read the whole thread, and only saw one mention about braking.

Last 2 years I've made 2 trips out west through Death Valley going and coming back, has long 8% and some 10% grades. One spot, I've done it 2 times now, I'm pretty close to going down to 1st gear going up the grade. Coming down I really need the engine braking. There are some other long grades up and down CA Hwy 395 I travel. There is campground near Las Vegas I like to stay, that has approx 15 mile steep grade, going up I'm in 2nd gear turning over 3,000rpm, not much over 30mph. Coming down I really use engine braking and would not want any less than I already have.

I have 2009 Tundra with 4.7V8, and works well towing my 2018 Escape 21, but would like a little more hp. Has 5 speed automatic which is easy to go to manual mode to stay in a gear or downshift for engine braking. Going down steep grades, I use the engine braking a lot, really saves the brakes. Often engine will turn 4000 plus rpms engine braking down some of these grades.

I've been looking for new truck for awhile and really like F150, but maybe get another Tundra. So, I'm looking at F150's with EcoBoost, probably 3.5, but maybe 2.7. Coming back from last trip out west thought occurred maybe EcoBoost not that great at engine braking, because of small displacement. I did some research and came up with some discouraging feedback. Big block V8's are a lot better at engine braking than smaller V6's. Plus, EcoBoost are apparently tuned for smooth engine transition, which apparently inhibits engine braking. I talked with my Ford mechanic buddy and he agreed.

After I absorbed that, I decided would probably get another Tundra. Any comments welcomed.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I read the whole thread, and only saw one mention about braking.

Last 2 years I've made 2 trips out west through Death Valley going and coming back, has long 8% and some 10% grades. One spot, I've done it 2 times now, I'm pretty close to going down to 1st gear going up the grade. Coming down I really need the engine braking. There are some other long grades up and down CA Hwy 395 I travel. There is campground near Las Vegas I like to stay, that has approx 15 mile steep grade, going up I'm in 2nd gear turning over 3,000rpm, not much over 30mph. Coming down I really use engine braking and would not want any less than I already have.

I have 2009 Tundra with 4.7V8, and works well towing my 2018 Escape 21, but would like a little more hp. Has 5 speed automatic which is easy to go to manual mode to stay in a gear or downshift for engine braking. Going down steep grades, I use the engine braking a lot, really saves the brakes. Often engine will turn 4000 plus rpms engine braking down some of these grades.

I've been looking for new truck for awhile and really like F150, but maybe get another Tundra. So, I'm looking at F150's with EcoBoost, probably 3.5, but maybe 2.7. Coming back from last trip out west thought occurred maybe EcoBoost not that great at engine braking, because of small displacement. I did some research and came up with some discouraging feedback. Big block V8's are a lot better at engine braking than smaller V6's. Plus, EcoBoost are apparently tuned for smooth engine transition, which apparently inhibits engine braking. I talked with my Ford mechanic buddy and he agreed.

After I absorbed that, I decided would probably get another Tundra. Any comments welcomed.

I agonized after placing the order for our 21 whether to keep a six month old Highlander we bought for our 17B. Decided to bite the bullet and traded in for a gently used 2013 Yukon with 5.3 V8 which served us very well. Have been reading the threads about F-150 with EcoBoost and was also skeptical about the engine braking. Eggscape put it so well when he wrote about apples and oranges in regards to EcoBoost and everything else. Ford indeed did not just put a "Stinking Badge" on a truck with a turbo charged motor.

I thought the new 2020 Explorer with RWD and 3.0 EcoBoost V6 was worth checking out and went for a test drive. It was nice, yet not exciting in any way to me and was $$$$. Still intrigued I was perusing Expedition reviews and saw the Edmunds(and others) reviews of the Expedition, which unlike the F-150 only has one engine choice- 3.5 EcoBoost. Went back to test drive and liked it. Mileage difference vs. Explorer was almost no difference and the ride is much better.

We took a 4K mile trip in September and will say the engine braking far exceeded my expectations. Way better and smoother than the V8 Yukon and mileage is better as well: 14.5 vs. 12.5 mpg.

Never owned GM and had no issues in 5 years with the Yukon and have never owned a Ford either. Toyota forced them to make better products IMO.

[War Eagle]

Charles, I'm not sure if it was covered earlier in this thread, but have you ever checked out the FastLane guys "Ike Gauntlet" videos where they test trucks (mostly 1/2 ton pickups) towing heavy loads up and down the lower part of Loveland Pass to/from the Eisenhower Tunnel in Colorado? This is a link to a summary they pulled together, but you can search for other individual truck performance videos with newer models and different engines.
https://www.tfltruck.com/tfltruck-hall-ike-gauntlet/
Specific to your concern, they focus a lot on effectiveness of engine breaking during the downhill segment of the gauntlet run.
For what it's worth, our 2016 F150 SuperCrew Fx4 with the 5.0L V8 and six-speed automatic tackles the Rockies just fine, both up grade and down. As we used to say about muscle cars when I was in high school back in the 70's - "There's no replacement for displacement." Speaking of displacement, what's the latest on Ford converting their 7.3L PowerStroke from diesel to a gas burner? Anyone got the latest scoop on that?

[CharlesPou]

yes, if I get F150 would probably be 5 liter V8, thanks

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I read the whole thread, and only saw one mention about braking..

After I absorbed that, I decided would probably get another Tundra. Any comments welcomed.

I vote for a late model Tundra. It took me 2 months of daily searches on CarMax but I found a 2017 Tundra Platinum with 21,000 miles on it for a great price.

We just towed our 2019 5.0 TA 6,000 miles from Washington state to the other Washington and back home. That 5.7L V8 handled everything we encountered including some very steep grades on secondary roads over and back across the Appellation Mountains. The tow/haul mode worked great, as did down shifts for engine braking. Plus this generation has disc brakes all around. It is hard to beat the Tundra’s reliability record.

[James Gang]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Charles, I'm not sure if it was covered earlier in this thread, but have you ever checked out the FastLane guys "Ike Gauntlet" videos where they test trucks (mostly 1/2 ton pickups) towing heavy loads up and down the lower part of Loveland Pass to/from the Eisenhower Tunnel in Colorado? This is a link to a summary they pulled together, but you can search for other individual truck performance videos with newer models and different engines.
https://www.tfltruck.com/tfltruck-hall-ike-gauntlet/
Specific to your concern, they focus a lot on effectiveness of engine breaking during the downhill segment of the gauntlet run.
For what it's worth, our 2016 F150 SuperCrew Fx4 with the 5.0L V8 and six-speed automatic tackles the Rockies just fine, both up grade and down. As we used to say about muscle cars when I was in high school back in the 70's - "There's no replacement for displacement." Speaking of displacement, what's the latest on Ford converting their 7.3L PowerStroke from diesel to a gas burner? Anyone got the latest scoop on that?

New engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovp6Fi5Oyu0

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I read the whole thread, and only saw one mention about braking.

Last 2 years I've made 2 trips out west through Death Valley going and coming back, has long 8% and some 10% grades. One spot, I've done it 2 times now, I'm pretty close to going down to 1st gear going up the grade. Coming down I really need the engine braking. There are some other long grades up and down CA Hwy 395 I travel. There is campground near Las Vegas I like to stay, that has approx 15 mile steep grade, going up I'm in 2nd gear turning over 3,000rpm, not much over 30mph. Coming down I really use engine braking and would not want any less than I already have.

I have 2009 Tundra with 4.7V8, and works well towing my 2018 Escape 21, but would like a little more hp. Has 5 speed automatic which is easy to go to manual mode to stay in a gear or downshift for engine braking. Going down steep grades, I use the engine braking a lot, really saves the brakes. Often engine will turn 4000 plus rpms engine braking down some of these grades.

I've been looking for new truck for awhile and really like F150, but maybe get another Tundra. So, I'm looking at F150's with EcoBoost, probably 3.5, but maybe 2.7. Coming back from last trip out west thought occurred maybe EcoBoost not that great at engine braking, because of small displacement. I did some research and came up with some discouraging feedback. Big block V8's are a lot better at engine braking than smaller V6's. Plus, EcoBoost are apparently tuned for smooth engine transition, which apparently inhibits engine braking. I talked with my Ford mechanic buddy and he agreed.

After I absorbed that, I decided would probably get another Tundra. Any comments welcomed.

All I can say is that I’ve towed my 2016 5.0TA for 12000 miles now. From Canadian border to Florida and I have ALWAYS been able to maintain the posted speed limit. Never had to use the climbing lane. All I do is set it in tow mode set the cruise and go. My truck is a 2016 F150, 6 speed, 2.7 Ecoboost with. 3:55 rear axle. I was surprised at the engine braking available from such a small engine. This motor is putting out 325hp@5700 rpm/375 ft. Lbs @3000rpm. The newer trucks with the 10 speeds put out even more. 60% of F150 sold are Ecoboost. Engine braking is only 1 part of the towing equation that definitely would not be the deciding factor for me. Just look at others on this forum that use F150 Ecoboost’s seems we “happy campers”😎

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Speaking of displacement, what's the latest on Ford converting their 7.3L PowerStroke from diesel to a gas burner? Anyone got the latest scoop on that?

There were two previous threads about this engine (which as already explained is not a converted diesel):
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...-v8-14711.html
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...gas-14728.html

The only recent update would be that output specifications have now been published by Ford, as discussed at the ends of those threads.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I've been looking for new truck for awhile and really like F150, but maybe get another Tundra. So, I'm looking at F150's with EcoBoost, probably 3.5, but maybe 2.7. Coming back from last trip out west thought occurred maybe EcoBoost not that great at engine braking, because of small displacement. I did some research and came up with some discouraging feedback. Big block V8's are a lot better at engine braking than smaller V6's. Plus, EcoBoost are apparently tuned for smooth engine transition, which apparently inhibits engine braking. I talked with my Ford mechanic buddy and he agreed.

After I absorbed that, I decided would probably get another Tundra. Any comments welcomed.

We've been driving a 2015 F150 3.5 EcoBoost since new. It's pulled a 07 Casita, 14 24' Cougar, 14 Lance 1985, 03 25' Bigfoot and now our Escape 5.0. The Cougar and Lance were sold after one trip, the Bigfoot only a year to foolishly purchase the Lance, but the Casita we owned for five years.

Our 5.0 has been pulled nearly 19,000 miles and had NO problems with engine braking in the Rockies on the five week maiden trip, the Arizona mountains last winter, again in the Rockies, to Grand Tetons, Yellowstone and Kellogg, ID, and then from Ba Haba, Maine, to Stowe, Vermont, and through the Adirondacks and home. We've had plenty of time to evaluate the 3.5 EB with engine braking and can say the engine braking is wonderful.

A friend of ours has a 2014 Tundra. He pulls his 23' Airstream, that is fairly light, and gets 10-12 mpg pulling but only 16 mpg just driving around. I keep paper records on every gallon and identify pulling vs partial or non-pulling. We get around 13.7 mpg pulling and slightly under 20 mpg not pulling, but it's rare when no pulling is involved in the calculations. We also don't live in a city where we travel with lots of braking, but so do our Airstream frineds. The tires at 69,000 miles still have at least 10,000+ miles to go before reaching the wear bars. The dealership was amazed we still had the original tires at 69,000 miles!

Last Friday we traded our 2015 F150 for a 2019 F150, again with a 3.5 EB. We pick up the new truck on Thurday. It has many more options, yet the payload actually went from 1,985#'s to nearly 2,100#'s. You don't get much of a choice on an end of year vehicle. We had to take a 3.5 EB because it was in the build we wanted. We would have been just as happy with a 2.7 EB as well.

We're also moving from a extended cab to a crew cab, but still keeping a 6.5' box, so it will be a foot longer. It will do the parking for us, see vehicles in the truck and camper blind spots, keep us inside the lane traveling down the highway, as well as slam on the brakes so we don't hit someone stopped in front of us nearly as bad. I ain't getting any younger!

Food for though,

Perry

[Fox hunt]

2.7 eco F150 pulls my 5.0 very well over mountains. no complaints here.

[cpaharley2008]

May as well stay home and let the truck do the driving for you..................

[davidmurphy02]

I hear the Canadian version will make poutine for you

[cpaharley2008]

Ha ha, touche......accent aigu....

[steve dunham]

We are looking for a new car for my wife . Today we looked at a Ford Edge with the 2.7 liter Eco boost engine . Don’t know how well it works in a F150 but in the Edge it was mighty impressive !