Tongue weight 2017 21' and info I learned today. - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 01-28-2017, 10:09 PM   #1
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Lightbulb Tongue weight 2017 21' and info I learned today.

I was curious about my tongue weight. 2017 21'
Dual solar (factory)
Under belly foam
Thermal awning windows
Extra wall insulation.
Dual 6v. All plug inverter. Etc.

All tanks 100% empty.
Front storage container empty.
Some kitchen stuff in the escape. A few tools and spare parts stored in the dinette benches. No food onboard.

Tongue weight = 420 lbs. Shureline 1000 lb scale. Trailer is level.

I then filled the fresh water tank.
Tongue weight = 400 lbs. No shock there.

I then put 3 folding camp chairs plus a small folding table into the previously empty front storage cargo box and the tongue weight went from 400 lbs to 412 lbs.

When I moved the 3 chairs + table to under the bed (at the foot of the bed) and the tongue weight dropped to 405 lbs.

When I then moved the 3 folding chairs and folding table to under the dinette the tongue weight dropped to 397 lbs.

I did all this to get a better (general) understanding of how placement of items affects tongue weight.

Our Tug has a hitch weight limit of 500 lbs / 5000 towing capacity

BUT I know that tongue weight should be 10 to 12-ish percent of total actual weight , if I recall correctly.

Posting this info here so a few others can learn as I did.

Cheers

John.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:25 PM   #2
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Good info for us other (soon to be in our case) 21 owners. Thanks for making those measurements and sharing them.

What is the dry weight of your 21 according to the sticker?
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:34 PM   #3
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Did you remove the weight from the scale between measurements? I recall something in the instructions about that.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Good info for us other (soon to be in our case) 21 owners. Thanks for making those measurements and sharing them.

What is the dry weight of your 21 according to the sticker?
GVWR is 5,000 lbs on both stickers.

But I know that isn't dry weight

And dry weight does not seem to be listed on either sticker.



And I did lift off the scale a couple times to reset it.

It was very very consistent with its readings.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:46 PM   #5
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Escape paperwork should have your weight with your options before loading. GVWR is total allowed when loaded.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:54 PM   #6
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John - it may look like this one from our 17 - this was glued inside our wardrobe, The dry weight is the GVWR minus the Cargo Capacity. So for our 21 it was 1590 kg (3500 #) - 441kg (972#) = 1149 kg or about 2530 lbs

The same info was on the silver label on the outside of the trailer.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:03 PM   #7
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John - it may look like this one from our 17 - this was glued inside our wardrobe, The dry weight is the GVWR minus the Cargo Capacity. So for our 21 it was 1590 kg (3500 #) - 441kg (972#) = 1149 kg or about 2530 lbs

The same info was on the silver label on the outside of the trailer.
If that Is true for us, then the dry weight is 3,919 lbs.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:13 PM   #8
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If that Is true for us, then the dry weight is 3,919 lbs.
That is pretty high but not impossible if you reinforced a lot of walls and bought about every option. You can get the number from your paperwork and see if it agrees.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:22 PM   #9
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That is pretty high but not impossible if you reinforced a lot of walls and bought about every option. You can get the number from your paperwork and see if it agrees.
No reinforced walls.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:24 PM   #10
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Oops , dry weight should also subtract the fresh water and hot water weights from the GVWR on the silver sticker... 95 kg and 26 kg in the case of our 17b. I'll plead aging mind....
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:39 PM   #11
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Oops , dry weight should also subtract the fresh water and hot water weights from the GVWR on the silver sticker... 95 kg and 26 kg in the case of our 17b. I'll plead aging mind....
Ok taking that into account on our sticker info I end up with 3,635 lbs.

How does that compare to other fairly loaded 21' Escapes?

The heaviest options I listed in my original post.

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Old 01-29-2017, 12:21 AM   #12
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As Cathy suggested, check your "Certificate of Origin" and your "U.S. Customs Invoice" sheets in the final paperwork you received from ETI. They both list your individual trailer's actual dry weight as built as it rolled off the production line. Our 21', with our chosen options and accessories, weighed 3620 lb. As I understand it, it's a calculated weight based on base weight of the camper model plus all options added, but they are very accurate with these estimated weights.
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Old 01-29-2017, 07:53 AM   #13
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Thanks for posting. This keeps me a little more confident in keeping the tongue weight under our 520 lb capacity with 5200 tow weight.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:09 AM   #14
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John, I think the 3635 sounds very reasonable with your options. The method I described above is how Tammy told me (in 2010) to calculate the dry weight. As War Eagle said, Tammy said that they did not weigh individual trailers, that they had the accurate weight of a standard trailer and then added known weights of options.

When we get our 21 home I plan to do the same thing as I did with our 17B - load it all up for a trip and weigh it at a local farm coop scale.

Thanks again for your tongue weight numbers.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:24 AM   #15
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Do you ever tow with the black tank full, or partially full? If so that may put you over as it's towards the front of the trailer, especially as the fresh tank level drops. I noticed a big difference in the pin weight of my 5.0TA when that's the case.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:44 AM   #16
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Good point Bob. About the furthest I have ever traveled with full tanks was about 30 miles to the nearest dump station. If we are in a campground with no dump station, we try to use the campground toilets, and I haul greywater off to them via a bucket we keep for that purpose. Gives me some necessary exercise.
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:53 AM   #17
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Good point Bob. About the furthest I have ever traveled with full tanks was about 30 miles to the nearest dump station. If we are in a campground with no dump station, we try to use the campground toilets, and I haul greywater off to them via a bucket we keep for that purpose. Gives me some necessary exercise.
Exactly the same here. We do the same.

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Old 01-29-2017, 11:26 AM   #18
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Thanks for posting. This keeps me a little more confident in keeping the tongue weight under our 520 lb capacity with 5200 tow weight.
Hey Steven

Somewhere there was a thread about a spreadsheets of actual tongue weights. It was very helpful.

Sorry I don't have a link. A search should turn it up.

For me the key is a Shureline 1000 lb scale. Along with about 13 or so Lynx Levelers and a flat Lynx "topper" to make a flat surface for the scale.

They are most accurate in the middle of the range, thus 1,000 capacity.

And FWIIW my certificate of Origin lists the "shipping" (dry) weight as 3,685 lbs.

John.
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:33 AM   #19
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The formula I got from several RV shops and a GM engineer for roughly calculating your tongue / trailer weight when loaded for travel is to take the dry weight and multiply by 1.25 or 1.3.
An Escape 21 with a dry weight of 3600 lbs (using the formula) would have a trailer weight of 4500 to 4780 lbs and a tongue weight of 450 to 480 lbs when ready for travel.
Like any rule of thumb it's not 100% accurate but looking at the listed weights in " Trailer Weights in the Real World" it is fairly close.
If all your water / waste tanks are full the formula is probably on the low side .
Since dumping your tanks may require one to drive a considerable distance to a dump station , I would not assume that waste water is not a factor and can be disregarded.
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:47 AM   #20
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From doing all my calculations on the 21's weights and the Highlander's capacities, I don't think we will ever approach the 5000# max tow weight (Toyota lists no max tongue weight for it) The number we will have be more careful with is the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR).

According to my calculations based on our specific Highlander (as posted on its door frame), using the dry weight of the 21 of yours John (ours sounds to be nearly identically optioned), then subtracting Mary and my weights we will have approximately 1329# of cargo weight capacity in the Highlander and 21 combined. I know we will be far under that number based on past experience with our 17.

However, if we traveled with full fresh water tanks AND full waste tanks (about 651#) we could come close to exceeding the GCVWR if we packed too much gear. I plan to never travel in that configuration. I can't see ANY situation in which I would travel with completely full waste AND freshwater tanks.

I think checking the GCVWR is too often overlooked. In my opinion, everyone should at some time make a visit to a scale and get an accurate reading of their own specific weights. Estimates, are just that - estimates.
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