Towing Escape 19 with Volvo XC90 PHEV Safe?

[chipdouglas]

Hi all, deciding now between a Casita 17 or an Escape 19 (I'm not considering an Escape 17 - personal preferences).

We have a newer Volvo XC90 plug-in hybrid with max tongue weight of 500 and max tow weight of 5,000. It can tow the Casita 17 (2210 dry, 295 tongue), and while the Escape 19 has a dry weight of 3150 and a tongue weight of 306, this forum suggests both can go a lot higher depending on trailer conditions. Moreover, we live in the Rockies, so going up grades at elevation is unavoidable.

I strongly prefer the Escape, but we are brand new to towing and want to build in an "FNG/idiot margin of error." Volvo has plenty of power (455hp combined) but want to know: would towing an Escape 19 with this setup still concern you enough to pass on it? Or am I being too cautious?

[HABBERDABBER]

Overkill on towing capacity is usually desired, but plenty of people tow with Toyota Highlanders and other 5K tow capacity rated SUV's. I know 3 that tow E21's with the Highlander. Your Volvo sounds to be in that league.

The performance in towing in mountains seems a tough struggle on most rigs.

[splitting_lanes]

I think the hybrid combination will work to your advantage. Electric motors make gobs of torque.

[Mike G]

You would want to weigh your 19' tongue from time to time, to monitor the hitch weight. Mine is about 525 lbs. I guess you could add a bike rack with a couple of bicycles to the rear of the trailer if the hitch was too heavy.

[Tosh]

I suspect your 500lb hitch weight restriction is for a trailer without a WD hitch. When using a WD hitch, you probably have a higher weight limit.



This is true for my F-150 - 500 lbs w/o a WD hitch; ~ 800 lbs with one. My 21 NE is typically 550lbs on the tongue.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by chipdouglas

Hi all, deciding now between a Casita 17 or an Escape 19 (I'm not considering an Escape 17 - personal preferences).

We have a newer Volvo XC90 plug-in hybrid with max tongue weight of 500 and max tow weight of 5,000. It can tow the Casita 17 (2210 dry, 295 tongue), and while the Escape 19 has a dry weight of 3150 and a tongue weight of 306, this forum suggests both can go a lot higher depending on trailer conditions. Moreover, we live in the Rockies, so going up grades at elevation is unavoidable.

I strongly prefer the Escape, but we are brand new to towing and want to build in an "FNG/idiot margin of error." Volvo has plenty of power (455hp combined) but want to know: would towing an Escape 19 with this setup still concern you enough to pass on it? Or am I being too cautious?

Modern tow ratings are much more conservatives and accurate then they were in the past.



They take into account factors like wheelbase, brakes, transmission cooling, body strength in addition to just horsepower. There are people who rightly said in the past that you need a big safety margin over the manufacture's tow rating in my opinion that is not accurate today. As far as I'm concerned if the vehicle manufacture says you can tow something with their vehicle, it can tow it.

[apollo]

We have an E19 and tow it with our XC90 PHEV. It tows really effortlessly compared to how it feels with our 4.0 V6 Tacoma. Keep in mind that the Volvo isn't wired for a brake controller, so I recommend the Prodigy RF as a solution there. For what it's worth, regen braking with the electric motor doesn't seem to care that there's a trailer attached and it feels like it still slows down the SUV with the trailer attached at the same rate as without the trailer--without even activating the trailer brakes.

I think the XC90 PHEV is a great pairing with an Escape (within the tongue and GVWR limits), because it's also a great and comfortable car for when you detach after arriving at camp.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

...
They take into account factors like wheelbase, brakes, transmission cooling, body strength in addition to just horsepower. There are people who rightly said in the past that you need a big safety margin over the manufacture's tow rating in my opinion that is not accurate today. As far as I'm concerned if the vehicle manufacture says you can tow something with their vehicle, it can tow it.

just be sure you take your vehicles payload capacity, and the GCWR into account.

First, NEVER use a trailer's empty weight, always base these calculations on the trailers GROSS weight rating, unless you absolutely know you're running much lighter, via weighing the actual loaded trailer.

Example, my 'new' 2019 Ford Expedition SUV with the heavy duty tow option can tow 9200 lbs. OR it can have a 1500 lb payload (which includes driver and passengers, plus every little thing you've put in the truck since it was sold). It can't do both, in fact, if you tow 9200 lbs, you can only have a 350 lb total payload in that 8 passenger SUV. Here's why.....

sticker on my B pillar,


GVWR is 7450 lbs. GCWR with the HD tow option is 15500 lbs (per Ford, not on that sticker). Payload is 1504 lbs.

so... CURB weight of MY truck, with the Limited Stealth option, is 7450 - 1504 = 5946 lbs. If I add a 9200 lb trailer to that curb weight, the gross combined weight is , 15146 lbs. so my effective payload with that trailer is GCWR 15500 - 15146 = 354 lbs.

Now, if I'm towing a 8000 lb trailer, then I have a 1500 lb payload. Except, that 800 lb trailer, optimally balanced with 10% tongue weight, puts 800 lbs on the hitch, which has to be a WDH if the trailer is over 6000 lbs, and they weigh like 60 or 80 lbs at least, so now our payload is 1500-880 == 620 lbs.

and on and on. Car and RV dealers will NOT tell you this.

Now, that same Expedition towing my 4500 lb max loaded Escape 21? Miles of aisles, I can pretty much put 1000 lbs in the truck and be happy.

vrooom!

[chipdouglas]

Wow, when I posted this I could not have imagined someone would have my *exact* setup.

Thanks to you and to everyone else for the feedback on safety and feasibility.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by apollo

We have an E19 and tow it with our XC90 PHEV. It tows really effortlessly compared to how it feels with our 4.0 V6 Tacoma. Keep in mind that the Volvo isn't wired for a brake controller, so I recommend the Prodigy RF as a solution there. For what it's worth, regen braking with the electric motor doesn't seem to care that there's a trailer attached and it feels like it still slows down the SUV with the trailer attached at the same rate as without the trailer--without even activating the trailer brakes.

I think the XC90 PHEV is a great pairing with an Escape (within the tongue and GVWR limits), because it's also a great and comfortable car for when you detach after arriving at camp.

Something to note is that Apollo's is setup appears to be a 2015 first generation E19, which I understand is about 350lbs lighter than an equivalently optioned current generation model. My 2023 moderately-optioned E19 has the dry weight listed at just over 3650lbs with a travel weight around 4000lbs. The tongue weight is about 460lbs.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by apollo

We have an E19 and tow it with our XC90 PHEV. It tows really effortlessly compared to how it feels with our 4.0 V6 Tacoma. Keep in mind that the Volvo isn't wired for a brake controller, so I recommend the Prodigy RF as a solution there. For what it's worth, regen braking with the electric motor doesn't seem to care that there's a trailer attached and it feels like it still slows down the SUV with the trailer attached at the same rate as without the trailer--without even activating the trailer brakes.

I think the XC90 PHEV is a great pairing with an Escape (within the tongue and GVWR limits), because it's also a great and comfortable car for when you detach after arriving at camp.

I'm considering a xc90 T8 as well. Do you use a wdh? have you noticed any issue with sway? As I understand it, the current xc90 platform does not recommend it, but I'm hesitant to tow without one since the trailer has so much surface area.

[apollo]

Originally Posted by MEB

Do you use a wdh? have you noticed any issue with sway? As I understand it, the current xc90 platform does not recommend it, but I'm hesitant to tow without one since the trailer has so much surface area.

I do not since I remember seeing it explicitly mentioned in the owners manual not to use a WDH. I don't know if it's a limitation due to the air suspension, folding hitch, or the "electronic sway control", but I'm making sure to follow all of the recommendations for towing--I even use the genuine Volvo tow ball as instructed by the manual to avoid questioning whether I did something outside of the factory recommendations should anything go wrong.

[John in Santa Cruz]

For what its worth, a pure WDH isn't a sway control, rather, it transfers more of the trailer's tongue weight onto the vehicle's front axle, and reduces the tendancy to 'porpoise' on bumps and dips in the road. Now, some WDH's integrate sway control, others allow you to use a conventional antisway friction brake.

[MrLynn]

Also note; Many cars, namely those with unibodies, do not allow WDHs. Volvos?