Weighed my new 19

[thunderworks]

We just got our new 19 a few weeks ago. My TV is a Honda Ridgeline. We're starting to get organized for a month long trip so thought I should get the rig weighed. I went to a CAT scale and used their phone app. It was dead easy.

I had a full tank of gas. A full load of fresh water. Much of the miscellany that goes in the back of the truck. Dishes. Full propane tanks. Dual 6v batteries in the front storage box. The fridge was NOT loaded with food, and our personal clothes were not in the trailer, but most everything else was.

I was surprised by the tongue weight. If I calculated correctly, it was 560lbs I didn't expect that, and thought it be a little under 500lbs, but that's the calculated number after the trip through the scales. The 560 was calculated subtracting the drive axle for the truck alone from the drive axle hooked to the trailer.

The trailer weight was 4040lbs, which will go up by the weight of food and clothes, but I anticipate that will be no more than 200lbs.

The question of "what can I tow" gets discussed here a lot, so I thought these real world numbers might be useful to others.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

I was surprised by the tongue weight. If I calculated correctly, it was 560lbs I didn't expect that, and thought it be a little under 500lbs, but that's the calculated number after the trip through the scales. The 560 was calculated subtracting the drive axle for the truck alone from the drive axle hooked to the trailer.

That calculation method is not correct. When you add weight to the hitch, you are not just adding that weight to the rear axle, you are prying some additional load off of the front axle and onto the rear axle. With typical tow vehicles, the increase in rear axle load is 30% to 40% higher than the weight on the hitch; this is a leverage situation, so the proportion depends on the ratio of the distance from rear axle to ball to the distance between axles (wheelbase).

The correct calculation of hitch weight is to subtract the total weight on the truck's axles without the trailer (5040 lb) from the total weight on the truck's axles with the trailer (5440 lb): you only have 400 pounds of tongue weight.

The trailer axle weight (3640 lb) plus tongue weight (400 lb) is the gross trailer weight (4040 lb).

Of course the total truck plus trailer weight is then 5040 + 4040 = 9090 lb. This isn't exactly the 9080 lb reported by the scale, because all of the scale readings are to the nearest multiple of 20 pounds. That scale precision limit and the corresponding accuracy limitation also means that the calculated tongue weight is an approximation... since it is based on four values each +/- 10 pounds, the result could be off by as much as 40 pounds (but is probably within 20 pounds).

The increase in rear axle load of 560 pounds for only 400 pounds of tongue weight is 40% more than the tongue weight. With the 2018 Honda Ridgeline's wheelbase of 125.2 inches (3,180 mm), that implies that from the truck's rear axle to the ball is 40% of that, or 50 inches (1,272 mm).

The 400 pound tongue weight is about 10% of the trailer weight. That's a little bit low for an Escape, and results from a combination of how cargo is loaded, whether it is towed level (a lower tongue will lower the tongue weight with tandem axles like this), and the fact that the fresh water tank (behind the axles) is full while the waste tanks (ahead of the axles) are empty. As the trip progresses and water is used, tongue weight will rise.

[thunderworks]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That calculation method is not correct. When you add weight to the hitch, you are not just adding that weight to the rear axle, you are prying some additional load off of the front axle and onto the rear axle. With typical tow vehicles, the increase in rear axle load is 30% to 40% higher than the weight on the hitch; this is a leverage situation, so the proportion depends on the ratio of the distance from rear axle to ball to the distance between axles (wheelbase).

The correct calculation of hitch weight is to subtract the total weight on the truck's axles without the trailer (5040 lb) from the total weight on the truck's axles with the trailer (5440 lb): you only have 400 pounds of tongue weight.

The trailer axle weight (3640 lb) plus tongue weight (400 lb) is the gross trailer weight (4040 lb).

Of course the total truck plus trailer weight is then 5040 + 4040 = 9090 lb. This isn't exactly the 9080 lb reported by the scale, because all of the scale readings are to the nearest multiple of 20 pounds. That scale precision limit and the corresponding accuracy limitation also means that the calculated tongue weight is an approximation... since it is based on four values each +/- 10 pounds, the result could be off by as much as 40 pounds (but is probably within 20 pounds).

The increase in rear axle load of 560 pounds for only 400 pounds of tongue weight is 40% more than the tongue weight. With the 2018 Honda Ridgeline's wheelbase of 125.2 inches (3,180 mm), that implies that from the truck's rear axle to the ball is 40% of that, or 50 inches (1,272 mm).

The 400 pound tongue weight is about 10% of the trailer weight. That's a little bit low for an Escape, and results from a combination of how cargo is loaded, whether it is towed level (a lower tongue will lower the tongue weight with tandem axles like this), and the fact that the fresh water tank (behind the axles) is full while the waste tanks (ahead of the axles) are empty. As the trip progresses and water is used, tongue weight will rise.

Thanks for the detailed correction and clarification . . . I think I followed your math closely enough to get the bigger picture. My calculations did surprise me and intuitively, I thought I must have misinterpreted something to come up with my tongue weight number. I will load the trailer with a bias to moving weight forward to increase the tongue weight.

Your math suggests that if I continue to simply compare the drive axle weights, I should calculate the actual tongue weight at around 71% of that number to get a more accurate number.

Thanks again.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

Your math suggests that if I continue to simply compare the drive axle weights, I should calculate the actual tongue weight at around 71% of that number to get a more accurate number.

Yes, that makes sense.

[freetodream]

Please keep us posted while you travel about how well you like towing with the Honda Ridgeline. I am curious if it is relaxing (a relative term I realize) to tow that load with or not?

[thunderworks]

Originally Posted by freetodream

Please keep us posted while you travel about how well you like towing with the Honda Ridgeline. I am curious if it is relaxing (a relative term I realize) to tow that load with or not?

Will do . . . but FWIW, I towed a Casita with the Honda last summer up and down the Rockies, Sierra's, and California coastal range and the truck handled it fine. I don't know if I'll ever get to the point towing where I'm "relaxed", but I think the truck is fine. Our new Escape is around 800lbs heavier than the Casita, so expect it to be a little slower, and to get poorer fuel economy, but I'm not stressed about that.

[GrumpySmile]

My wife and I also have a Honda Ridgeline and would be interested in how you've been doing with your towing the 19 footer. We are torn between the 17 and the 19, and would like the extra space, but not the weight. Our Honda is a 2020

[thunderworks]

Originally Posted by GrumpySmile

My wife and I also have a Honda Ridgeline and would be interested in how you've been doing with your towing the 19 footer. We are torn between the 17 and the 19, and would like the extra space, but not the weight. Our Honda is a 2020

The change from the lighter Casita to the Escape 19' did create some issues. I started to use a ScanGauge II to monitor transmission temps, and the Honda was running really hot. My 2018 RT-L has the 6 speed transmission and I've read that the newer 9speed tranny doesn't have the same issues, but I was very uncomfortable with transmission temps so I added a much larger aftermarket transmission cooler and removed the OEM one. The new cooler holds roughly 8X the oil as the OEM version and it's dropped the temps significantly.

I will keep the Honda, but if I needed a new TV, I wouldn't buy the Ridgeline. I'd look for something that expanded the margins both for payload and tow capacity. The Ridgeline is probably the best driving mid-size TV, but IMO, it's too close to max capacity as a TV for our 19.

[MVA]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That calculation method is not correct. When you add weight to the hitch, you are not just adding that weight to the rear axle, you are prying some additional load off of the front axle and onto the rear axle. With typical tow vehicles, the increase in rear axle load is 30% to 40% higher than the weight on the hitch; this is a leverage situation, so the proportion depends on the ratio of the distance from rear axle to ball to the distance between axles (wheelbase).

The correct calculation of hitch weight is to subtract the total weight on the truck's axles without the trailer (5040 lb) from the total weight on the truck's axles with the trailer (5440 lb): you only have 400 pounds of tongue weight.

The trailer axle weight (3640 lb) plus tongue weight (400 lb) is the gross trailer weight (4040 lb).

Of course the total truck plus trailer weight is then 5040 + 4040 = 9090 lb. This isn't exactly the 9080 lb reported by the scale, because all of the scale readings are to the nearest multiple of 20 pounds. That scale precision limit and the corresponding accuracy limitation also means that the calculated tongue weight is an approximation... since it is based on four values each +/- 10 pounds, the result could be off by as much as 40 pounds (but is probably within 20 pounds).

The increase in rear axle load of 560 pounds for only 400 pounds of tongue weight is 40% more than the tongue weight. With the 2018 Honda Ridgeline's wheelbase of 125.2 inches (3,180 mm), that implies that from the truck's rear axle to the ball is 40% of that, or 50 inches (1,272 mm).

The 400 pound tongue weight is about 10% of the trailer weight. That's a little bit low for an Escape, and results from a combination of how cargo is loaded, whether it is towed level (a lower tongue will lower the tongue weight with tandem axles like this), and the fact that the fresh water tank (behind the axles) is full while the waste tanks (ahead of the axles) are empty. As the trip progresses and water is used, tongue weight will rise.

Brian,

Interesting string given we just measured our E19 tongue weight this week (level trailer and tongue on a scale) to be 365 lbs with full tank of fresh water and one propane tank full; 400 lbs with fresh water tank empty and two full propane tanks. Seemed lower than expected. You comment left me perplexed: "a lower tongue will lower the tongue weight with tandem axles like this". If I raised the tongue then the tongue weight would go up? Hence, if my tongue weight is low, I should raise the tongue? Thanks.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MVA

... we just measured our E19 tongue weight this week (level trailer and tongue on a scale) to be 365 lbs with full tank of fresh water and one propane tank full; 400 lbs with fresh water tank empty and two full propane tanks. Seemed lower than expected. You comment left me perplexed: "a lower tongue will lower the tongue weight with tandem axles like this". If I raised the tongue then the tongue weight would go up? Hence, if my tongue weight is low, I should raise the tongue?

Yes, raising the tongue will force the tongue (and thus the hitch) to carry more of the trailer's weight... but don't raise it just to change the tongue weight. The hitch height should be adjusted to keep the trailer level (frame parallel to the ground, so both axles are equally compressed so they carry the same weight), regardless of what the resulting tongue/hitch weight might be.

The importance of tongue weight to stability is that it indicates where the centre of the mass of the trailer is, relative to the axles - it needs to be far enough ahead of the axles. Raising the tongue doesn't fix that - only moving stuff in the trailer fixes mass distribution problems.

[Small but Sweet]

We weighed the new 21C today on the way home from camping. 425lb tongue weight, 4075lb total camper weight. With two full propane tanks, all other tanks empty, WDH and our usual short-stay camping gear. It was good news. Our shipping weight is stated as 3859, so we bring about 200lb of clobber with us.

Another concern was how it would fit in the space at home, and that went well. Then also, we worried we'd be "so big" in camping spaces after having our 17. At camp, we still look tiny among the behemoths.

Our mpg has gone from about 16-17mpg towing the E17 to 12mpg towing the E21C with the same vehicle. Not only has the weight gone up but the frontal area too, of course.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Small but Sweet

Another concern was how it would fit in the space at home, and that went well. Then also, we worried we'd be "so big" in camping spaces after having our 17. At camp, we still look tiny among the behemoths.

So, you don't have to change your profile.

[Small but Sweet]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

So, you don't have to change your profile.

Haha! Yes I don’t feel like a liar :-)

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Small but Sweet

We weighed the new 21C today on the way home from camping. 425lb tongue weight, 4075lb total camper weight. With two full propane tanks, all other tanks empty, WDH and our usual short-stay camping gear. It was good news. Our shipping weight is stated as 3859, so we bring about 200lb of clobber with us.

Another concern was how it would fit in the space at home, and that went well. Then also, we worried we'd be "so big" in camping spaces after having our 17. At camp, we still look tiny among the behemoths.

Our mpg has gone from about 16-17mpg towing the E17 to 12mpg towing the E21C with the same vehicle. Not only has the weight gone up but the frontal area too, of course.

I added your trailer to the Trailer Weights in the Real World Spreadsheet. Thanks for posting.

[Small but Sweet]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I added your trailer to the Trailer Weights in the Real World Spreadsheet. Thanks for posting.

Thank you!

[MarkinVan]

Originally Posted by GrumpySmile

My wife and I also have a Honda Ridgeline and would be interested in how you've been doing with your towing the 19 footer. We are torn between the 17 and the 19, and would like the extra space, but not the weight. Our Honda is a 2020

In addition to the extra space we love the extra axle.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

I added a much larger aftermarket transmission cooler and removed the OEM one. The new cooler holds roughly 8X the oil as the OEM version and it's dropped the temps significantly.

I would annotate the owners manual with the difference in trans oil capacity, AND put that new total oil capacity on an indelible sticker under the hood, otherwise, when you have the transmission serviced, they very well might not put enough in.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I added your trailer to the Trailer Weights in the Real World Spreadsheet

This is great data....very useful!