Winterizing / shore power for winter camping?

[Hawkeye Ed]

Here in the Pacific Northwest there are lots of winter camping opportunities.

What does it take to keep the water system operating all year round?

If you store your Escape in the winter with an electric heater inside, do you need to winterize the water system?

Can you still camp and use the water system when it's below freezing?

I'm asking because we store our Escape under cover and connected to shore power with a little electric heater that keeps the interior toasty. The propane furnace thermostat is set to come on at a few degrees colder should the power go out for a day or two.

Is that enough so that we can keep the water system active all winter?

We'd like to do some winter camping. None of that below zero stuff. But here in the Pacific Northwest there are lots of opportunities for winter camping when the temperature's around freezing or maybe somewhat below.

Any advice out there?

[cpaharley2008]

Can you give us some temperature ranges? Also do you have the outside foam? Really, the only tank that is impacted is your fresh water water tank, your black is inside and the grey use can be limited.

[rubicon327]

Right around freezing isn’t too tough to handle especially if it gets above freezing during the day. Sustained weather below freezing gets challenging. Without the foam (and eventually even with the foam) any lines underneath, outside showers and tank dump valves will freeze. Does the 5.0 have any hot/cold supply lines crossing under the trailer like the 21? I believe it does for service to the kitchen sink. The 19 doesn’t but the short section of fresh water suction line from the tank is exposed and is the first to freeze.

[UncleTim]

These are the things I could do. I did it once a few weeks ago. I am no expert.

1. Put anti freeze in the black and gray tanks when empty. So you can open them to dump.
2. Plug into shore power.
3. Turn on heating strips if you have them. I would make sure the tank is at least one third full of fresh water. Glenn pointed this out to me, you create a thermal mass. This also helps to keep the inside warmer. Not sure about gray water heating pad if empty. I would think leave it off unless there is some water in there.
4. Put glove heaters in the exterior shower bins if a cold front comes thru and temps go below freezing.
5. Winterize the fresh water system and bring your own fresh water, (is an option). Isolate and drain heater? Not sure about this one.
6. Keep the heater on inside at least in the 40's.
7. Use temperature sensitive switches to turn on low temperature heaters. Jim I ended up buying the one you suggested. Thank you.

I can't think of anything else. Having the spray foam would pretty much be mandatory for this approach (I would think).

[Bea]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

These are the things I could do.
4. Put glove heaters in the exterior shower bins if a cold front comes thru and temps go below freezing.

Hi UncleTim, Nice list! I just wanted to clarify #4. When you say 'glove heaters', are you referring to those chemical hand warmers that you rub and put in your ski gloves? And when you say 'exterior shower bins' are you referring to the outside shower box unit? If so, that is a clever approach! Since those 'glove heaters' only last about 10 hours, how often do you change them out? I put some reflectix inside my outside shower door but never thought of hand warmers. Thanks for sharing - fun food for thought for those cold snaps! -Bea

[Hawkeye Ed]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Can you give us some temperature ranges? Also do you have the outside foam? Really, the only tank that is impacted is your fresh water water tank, your black is inside and the grey use can be limited.

Good questions. I should have thought of them in my original post.

Our 2020 5.0 has the outside foam but no 12 volt heat pads. It's parked under cover here in Western Washington where we pay a flat fee every month for electricity and might as well keep an electric heater running.

Western Washington winter days are seldom below 45° (8° C) but can occasionally dip into the 20s and 30s (-6° to -1° C) at night.

Surprisingly, there are occasional warm (sorta) sunny days in the winter and we'd like to go camping. So I'm wondering if it's possible to keep the water system filled and ready to go.

We don't have the 120 volt option for the water heater but can keep the seat cushion and plywood cover open. We can keep open the bathroom door and the undersink cabinet doors.

The main points of concern, it seems, are the fresh water tank, the outside faucet under the kitchen sink, the water lines to the sink and bathroom and the drains.

I suppose the question is: What breaks when it gets too cold? The drain and dump valves? Water lines?

Any advice from winter campers?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Ed

I suppose the question is: What breaks when it gets too cold? The drain and dump valves? Water lines?

Anywhere that water can be trapped with no where to expand. The specific problems I have heard of are toilet flush valves and outside shower assemblies. I suppose the water pump would be a point of concern too. I can add that due to its flexibility PEX piping itself is pretty agreeable to freezing versus say copper piping. Despite my warnings my father towed an unwinterized Scamp home to NJ in the winter after a purchase in Florida. By the time he got home the plumbing was frozen solid. I thawed it out and everything was fine. Not suggesting to allow that to happen - just an example to show that PEX piping just doesn’t start splitting and bursting everywhere when frozen.

[kstock11]

One thing I’ve done when the temperature drops below freezing at night is use my winterizing valve to pump water from a water container inside the Escape. Instead of pumping rv antifreeze, you’re pumping fresh water.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by kstock11

One thing I’ve done when the temperature drops below freezing at night is use my winterizing valve to pump water from a water container inside the Escape. Instead of pumping rv antifreeze, you’re pumping fresh water.

The first thing to freeze for us was the water pickup tube to the fresh tank. Note that this works best on a 19 with no external hot/cold lines under the trailer. 17’s may be ok too and trailers with underbody foam have some extra time before freezing pipes that cross underneath. If it is going to be really cold it is ideal if you can drain and isolate outdoor showers first which I can do by opening shower valves, then opening low point system drain (early Escapes only), closing shower isolation valves (added myself), and then recharging water system via winterizing tee and an internal water container. Haven’t tried them yet but I have a couple of Smart Bottle bags that will fit in the under bed drawer I constructed near the pump.
https://smartbottleinc.com/

[cpaharley2008]

I was thinking of installing shut off valves to my 2 exterior showers inside so that they could be isolated. Using a fresh water container like member kstock11 mentions will work (#8). Then you can use the trailer with the on board heat. If leaving it unattended, You can purchase therm-cubes see here Thermo Cube the come on at 35 and off at 45 to operate an electric heater if leaving the trailer.