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Old 08-01-2015, 01:31 PM   #21
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Got to agree with Karen. Might be quieter then without, but "sound proof" it's not. Try it some night at a WalMart.
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Old 08-01-2015, 01:44 PM   #22
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Bruce, the link to HotFishTaco's NovaKool 7.3 cf refrigerator install was inspiring. Unfortunately none of his photos on the entire thread appeared just the captions. Still he offers a wealth of information. There is no turning back, I decided long ago my next trailer will have 12vdc/120vac refrigerator.

It makes no sense at all for ETI or any manufacturer to stop offering absorption units as standard, electric as an option? maybe if the buyer is fully aware of what else is involved. I do know this, it's for me.

As to the insulation package, I see much value in the windows but disappointed that the extra insulation is adding to below the belt line that in my view should have had it in the first place. The underside foam will come later after I am done with additions as it will be impossible when all covered.

Back to the NovaKool, I totally agree with HotFishTaco's assessment that the units needs to be shrouded with foam boards, the iso boards have the highest thermal performance per inch and I recall that further insulating the box prior to inserting in the cabinet greatly reduces compressor cycle times as reported by HotFishTaco.

You guys are the best. Thank you.

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Old 08-01-2015, 02:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Jim- is it possible that you have it backwards i.e. the reflectex with thermal pkg. is from about the bench seat height up? Thought my non-thermal packaged 17B had the reflectex on the wheel wells. Maybe not.
Yeah, I didn't quite understand that statement either, but then Jim does later mention that the reflectix covers everything from roof to floor. That's correct.
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:08 PM   #24
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Re-read what Jim wrote.

"Thus with the package your entire trailer from the roof to the wheel wells is covered with reflectix and the white vinyl covers all areas that can be seen."
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:59 PM   #25
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The option is called "Extra insulation and thermal windows". Without the option you have regular windows and reflectix from the roof down under the vinyl which stops basically at the belly band and seats. Extra insulation now covers from belly band down to the floor in all the storage areas and other unseen places.
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Old 08-01-2015, 03:09 PM   #26
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Ok; looks like I had it backwards, or perhaps the original owner did the "half thermal package" that some had done, i.e. thermal package w/out thermal windows for $500.
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Old 08-01-2015, 03:26 PM   #27
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This post by Reace in November of 2013 may help clarify:

"Hello Everyone,

We would like to take a moment to clarify a couple of things regarding the Extra Insulation with Thermal Window Option.

If you order a trailer with the Standard Insulation Package it comes with the headliner material glued directly to the fiberglass shell. We will then cover any exposed or visible areas under the benches with the Reflectix Insulation.

If you add the Extra Insulation option, Reflectix Insulation then completely covers the interior of the trailer (except the floor). However, the 21' Escape and the NEW Escape 5.0 Tandem Axle Fifth Wheel, we do not line the ceiling with Reflectix, we use a honeycomb material in the fiberglass process which strengthens the roof and provides additional insulation.

During the last 5-6 months we have been changing the method of insulation throughout the trailer including:
- behind the bathroom
- wheel wells
- exterior door

This is why you are seeing the differences between your trailers. If you have ordered a trailer with the Extra Insulation but do not see it in your trailer, you may have to peel the headliner back slightly.

Thank you,

Reace"


The original post is #63 of this thread:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...on-3077-7.html
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:15 PM   #28
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As for a furnace, we use a portable 120v heater most of the time as we are more of a traveler than a camper and usually have full hook-ups.
Our Casita has a heat strip built into the A/C that we normally use when we're on electric hookups. Do the Escape A/C units have one? Didn't even think to look when we were out at ETI in May.
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:29 PM   #29
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Jim,
Are you using a weight distribution hitch with your set-up and if so, which one? We are having trouble deciding. Any suggestions would be appreciated. We will be towing our '21 with a 2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 5.3 and 3:42 rear. Christine and Emilio
Hi C & E,
I have the same truck (double cab) and use the Anderson I already had for my previous tug. Like Jim I don't bother with it for short trips, but it gives a nice solid connection & sway control out on the road without too much extra weight.
Our 21 drops the rear of the Silverado about an inch measured at the rear wheel well without the Anderson.
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:35 PM   #30
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Okay Robert, I was incorrect in my explanation, the additional reflectix is on top on all models but the 21 and 5.0 with standard coverage below on all models regardless of the option. Like my name says....never in doubt, often wrong....
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:37 PM   #31
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I am confused on this statement from Reace

"If you order a trailer with the Standard Insulation Package it comes with the headliner material glued directly to the fiberglass shell. We will then cover any exposed or visible areas under the benches with the Reflectix Insulation."

I assume standard insulation package is what comes with the trailer. With that the headliner is directly glued to the shell ?? Does this mean there is no Reflectix under the headliner ? Unless you order extra insulation ? Now I learned that the 21ft has no Reflectix due to the honeycomb material added at build time, how does that compare to Reflectix ?

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Old 08-01-2015, 04:41 PM   #32
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An unrelated to insulation question concerning the standard battery.
I see the optional twin 6vdc batteries are boxed and mounted on rear bumper.

If you don't order those, just the standard single 12vdc where is it mounted, tongue behind propane tanks ?

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Old 08-01-2015, 04:52 PM   #33
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Santiago,
Depending on model the insulation may be different. Depending on model, the battery location is different. On the 21' Escape, the batteries are located inside under the curb side dinette seat. As far as reflectix
it is everywhere I look. On the ceiling over the refrigerator and underneath everywhere. I'm not tearing down the vinyl to look there, If you take the time and read this thread you can see the construction pictures of individual models and the walls with reflectix http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...iday-3244.html
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
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An unrelated to insulation question concerning the standard battery.
I see the optional twin 6vdc batteries are boxed and mounted on rear bumper.

If you don't order those, just the standard single 12vdc where is it mounted, tongue behind propane tanks ?

Santiago
My twin 6s are in a vented box in the street side dinette bench... I think the picture on the ETI web option list is a 17 .
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:17 PM   #35
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Looking to be a 21 ft owner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
I am confused on this statement from Reace

"If you order a trailer with the Standard Insulation Package it comes with the headliner material glued directly to the fiberglass shell. We will then cover any exposed or visible areas under the benches with the Reflectix Insulation."

I assume standard insulation package is what comes with the trailer. With that the headliner is directly glued to the shell ?? Does this mean there is no Reflectix under the headliner ? Unless you order extra insulation ? Now I learned that the 21ft has no Reflectix due to the honeycomb material added at build time, how does that compare to Reflectix ?

Santiago

Santiago, without the insulation option, reflectix only covers the areas where the fiberglass is exposed - those areas where there is no headliner material - like under the benches, etc.

With the insulation package, reflectix covers everything except the floor, (and in the 21 and 5er there is a honeycomb material on the ceiling). So you'd have the reflectix and the headliner on visible walls, and reflectix on non visible. On our 19, the reflectix is under the headliner on the ceiling also. Same with the 17.

I think the confusion comes from the use of the words "extra insulation". This kind of implies that reflectix is used on the standard build on the visible walls, and that if you order "extra" you get more. That is not the case. They perhaps should drop the word "extra" and just call it the insulation option. After all, the vinyl headliner alone has very little if any insulating qualities.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:23 PM   #36
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Got it on the insulation, thanks Robert.

Jim, the standard 21ft 12vdc battery under the curb side dinette seat ?

If a wet battery I assume it's isolated and vented to the outside. Could it be an AGM battery more suited for cabin use ?
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I plan on deleting the standard furnace due to the fact that it's easier for me to design my own with better air distribution, quieter and more efficient. When power is available, 120vac space heater works great.
While the standard Atwood is a very effective choice for a direct-discharge configuration, a ducted setup would have advantages. For that, there are options which wouldn't make sense as standard (or even optional) equipment but would have advantages, such as the Propex:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
A Propex HeatSource furnace might fit well standing on edge inboard of the wheel well, taking just as much height, but using less space because it is sharing with the wheel well... if the combustion air inlet and exhaust fit. I'm not trying to specifically push the Propex, just exploring modern alternatives that might fit better than Atwood's design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
I'm also curious how you plan to redesign the furnace to make it quieter and more efficient, given that the specs for the standard furnace are already excellent for a propane furnace.
Any ducted installation is potentially better for noise than a direct-vent setup. As previously discussed, typical RV furnaces (including the Atwood used by Escape) are not efficient. With 2.8 kW of output from 3.0 kW (for the 2800 model), the Propex claims 93% efficiency (versus 76% for the Atwood).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
I believe Reace has looked into Novacool and reached the conclusion that it is not a good alternative to the Dometic that they do install, nor is it economical to offer it as an option. I wouldn't expect them to redesign their standard build to accommodate it.
I agree that for most people it is not a good alternative, so it makes sense that Escape would not offer it. It would not be reasonable to expect Escape to accommodate someone else's design. On the other hand, simply leaving out parts to allow an owner to install what suits that owner doesn't seem unreasonable.

There are production RVs which offer compressor-type refrigerators as standard equipment - including at least one Trillium-style (like the Escape body design) moulded fiberglass trailer - so for their customers this is apparently not an unreasonable choice.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:28 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
If a wet battery I assume it's isolated and vented to the outside. Could it be an AGM battery more suited for cabin use ?
Yes, all batteries offered by Escape are the traditional flooded design. Although AGM batteries do not vent under normal operation, they are still supposed to be vented to the outside in case abnormal conditions cause the safety relief vent to open.

While Escape doesn't offer an AGM option, one could get just the standard battery, then upgrade later to whatever size and type of battery is desired. Maybe they would put in the big vented box with just one standard (which I believe is group 27 size) battery in it?
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:33 PM   #39
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Brian, you read my mind. The Propex units, there are two models as I recall, have been around for a while and successfully used in van campers, Westfalias come to mind. Lots of discharge flexibility.

We can't keep doing the same thing forever, better designs are out there.

Having said that, I agree with you that a manufacturer has to keep costs and complexity under control or risk losing market share. I get it and support that. But, I am different and enjoy superior designs despite it costing me time and money.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
I see the optional twin 6vdc batteries are boxed and mounted on rear bumper.
As Paul mentioned, this is where the battery or batteries (either way) are mounted on the 17-Foot. This location is used only for the 17-Foot, due to the proportions (axle relatively far back in the body) of this model.
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