DC electrical safety standards updates

[Dcboyd]

Certainly nice to be able to talk about discrepancies, and being informed. This way when we are updating, improving or just doing piddling on our trailer we can do so with knowledge.
Thanks everyone, I certainly appreciate everything on this forum.

[Greg A]

They might get around the code if they’re viewing these microwaves as countertop lower power units. I think the code only addresses the permanent built in units like over the range.

[Dcboyd]

Found this article.
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...find-out-here/

[Jwinfrey]

Originally Posted by Greg A

They might get around the code if they’re viewing these microwaves as countertop lower power units. I think the code only addresses the permanent built in units like over the range.

In the NEC, Article 551.2 Definitions. It says Fastened or otherwise secured at a specific location. I think the microwave meets that criteria even though it’s a counter top unit.

I don’t see anywhere in this section were it requires a dedicated circuit for a microwave. That’s why I’m asking....

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Jwinfrey

Which specific code requires the Microwave be on a dedicated circuit?

A permanently installed microwave cannot be supplied by any of the two or more small-appliance branch circuits in accordance with NEC 210.52(B)(2). NEC 210.21(B)(2) states that a 15-ampere receptacle where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles cannot supply a load in excess of 12 amperes. A microwave oven generally draws around 13 amperes and therefore must be installed in accordance with NEC 210.21(B)(1) on a dedicated circuit.

It's not just microwaves. Any permanently installed device defined as an appliance per Article 422 must be on a dedicated circuit if it draws in excess of 12 amperes. So, if you installed a wall mount toaster oven, convection oven, etc. into the trailer, it would have to be on a dedicated circuit.

https://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-...ranch-circuits

[Jwinfrey]

That would not be my interpretation of 210.52(B)(2). It certainly doesn’t say that “a microwave” needs its own circuit. Not the hill I want to die on..I would agree that other high amperage appliances need a dedicated circuit but none are offered as options.. If applying dwelling unit standards...where’s the 2 separate small appliance 20 amp circuits? Or the real safety issue. Where’s the receptacle serving the small optional counter extension on the other side of the sink. Not trying to start anything. I know the Electric code is a giant rabbit hole full of interpretation.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Jwinfrey

That would not be my interpretation of 210.52(B)(2). It certainly doesn’t say that “a microwave” needs its own circuit. Not the hill I want to die on..I would agree that other high amperage appliances need a dedicated circuit but none are offered as options.. If applying dwelling unit standards...where’s the 2 separate small appliance 20 amp circuits? Or the real safety issue. Where’s the receptacle serving the small optional counter extension on the other side of the sink. Not trying to start anything. I know the Electric code is a giant rabbit hole full of interpretation.

And that is not my interpretation of 210.52(B)(2) either - it's an widely accepted requirement. But I'm not here to argue with someone who is not or has been an electrical inspector /engineer. Google it yourself and see if a permanently installed microwave can be on a circuit with two or more outlets.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MZL1312

Also I thought CSA put out a 2020 update to bring most items into conformity with NFPA.
https://www.techstreet.com/standards...0-rv-series-14

Here's a working version of that link, to the 2020 release, with notes regarding changes:
https://www.techstreet.com/standards...uct_id=1893072

[MZL1312]

Would like to hear ETI's answer when asking about updating life-safety compliance.

Totally agree. Saying they conform to codes like CSA but don't, puts them in legal liability hot water waaaay beyond warranty claims. (Hopefully) Karl and the new private equity firm's lawyers might be motivated to change faster than a typical mom/pop small business. Especially because investment lawyers with clients who have perceived deep pockets will want CYA when it comes to negligence (compared to ignorance).

I can totally understand paying extra to meet US NFPA standards compared to CSA (but that's less of an issue with the new codes coming into closer alignment). But now that ETI has split Canadian sale prices with USD price sheets, they can/should meet both standards, especially because they market to the US consumers. Even by ETI's comments, 75% of sales comes from US. A sharp lawyer would have a field day and I don't want to see that happen to ETI.

Here's hoping they have a game plan in 2021....

[gklott]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

US Plumbing codes.
Air admittance valves are to be installed to allow access for maintenance. Escape installs one in the wall of the 21 bathroom that cannot be accessed without tearing out the wall.

I am not knowledgeable on plumbing issues. Recommend that the Forum's many plumbing professionals speak up here.

I am not finding anything in NFPA 1192, 2021 edition, specific to "air admittance valves" (AAV). §7.6.6 addresses anti-siphon trap vent (ASTV) devices. (6) says "The device shall be installed in an accessible location that permits a free flow of air."

Are the AAV and the ASTV the same thing?

In addition to specific requirements in §7.4, §7.1.2.1 says that trailer plumbing "...shall be listed and conform to minimum performance and sanitation standards as applicable..." Also, 7.1.2.3 says "All design, construction, and workmanship shall be in. conformance with accepted engineering principles." These two point to the Uniform Plumbing Code, for which there is a new 2021 edition.

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Use of S traps are not allowed. The kitchen sink is installed with a S trap. The addition of an air admittance valve or replacement with a Hepvo valve is required to meet code.

NFPA 1192, 7.4.4.4. has the S-trap prohibition.

Obviously, we all need to check out our trailers to make sure the liquid systems are safe, sanitary, and functioning properly.

73/gus