WFCO 8955-LIS converter woes

[Mark J]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Question: Have you had any issues with heat build up under the bench? We had that concern & discussed the need to add a grill for ventilation, perhaps. Is that a reality with your build?

I've not experienced any real heat build up under the bench, but then again, we don't camp that much in hot climates and don't typically use the inverter for long periods of time with heavy current loads. So far, no issues.

[richm]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It looks tidy, but I don't see the point of fusing the current from the converter or solar charge controllers. These devices are incapable of delivering more current than the wire rating, and if you use the original WFCO installation the converter already has fuses in the power centre; they're not like batteries.

This is an excellent question.

When a charger fails, it can become a dead short between the input and output. Or, upon failure, the charger can dump all stored energy, without regulation. I've seen this happen, and it fried all of the power transistors and charred the circuit boards in the other, more expensive equipment connected to the charger output.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by Mark J

I've not experienced any real heat build up under the bench, but then again, we don't camp that much in hot climates and don't typically use the inverter for long periods of time with heavy current loads. So far, no issues.

Thanks much, Mark J. That's what I was hoping you would say. We will likely test the warmer climate part, as we are in FL. However when we camp in the warm stuff we are typically on hookups or generator for the A/C. We are not heavy inverter users, so far. Plan this summer is to chase cooler temps in Colorado, Tetons, YS, Glacier, & Custer. Sick of summer heat in FL.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I did note that when my PD4655Li was charging my lithiums from their shipping state of 30% charged, and they were drawing 50-55 amps for hours, the PD converter fans came on. The batteries took a total of 4.5kW to fully charge from that initial 30% charged state.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I did note that when my PD4655Li was charging my lithiums from their shipping state of 30% charged, and they were drawing 50-55 amps for hours, the PD converter fans came on. The batteries took a total of 4.5kW to fully charge from that initial 30% charged state.

Thanks for the info. Happy to learn under bench temps are not much of a issue. One less thing to deal with...

Our Battleborns shipped about 4 months ago & are sitting in a closet. Still sitting at over 93%. Was surprised how little they have drained and how they are all the same levels. I was expecting somewhere between 50%-75%.

[John in Santa Cruz]

its difficult to determine LFP battery charge from voltage as the voltage stays quite flat

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

its difficult to determine LFP battery charge from voltage as the voltage stays quite flat

Volt meter is all I have right now until we get the trailer. Last pictures this week has it looking almost done, but it's getting hung up on the refrig. No idea when ETI will get the next shipment, but weather & covid are hitting manufacturers & shipping hard once again. ETI called us Fri to tell us our scheduled delivery date will need to be rescheduled to an unknown future date. We are expecting another significant delay.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by richm

When a charger fails, it can become a dead short between the input and output. Or, upon failure, the charger can dump all stored energy, without regulation. I've seen this happen, and it fried all of the power transistors and charred the circuit boards in the other, more expensive equipment connected to the charger output.

Sure... but the input of the solar charge controller is the panel array, and they can be safely short-circuited in full sun with ideal orientation without exceeding the current-carrying capacity of the wires used to connect them. A charger connected to another power source would be a different situation, and that case there should be fusing at the source.

The WFCO (or similarly installed) AC-to-DC converter has output fuses.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I did note that when my PD4655Li was charging my lithiums from their shipping state of 30% charged, and they were drawing 50-55 amps for hours, the PD converter fans came on. The batteries took a total of 4.5kW to fully charge from that initial 30% charged state.

You meant 4.5 kWh (not kW), right? The charging power would be less than 800 watts (55 A @ ~14.5 V).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jack!

https://www.explorist.life/how-to-wi...trical-system/

Fair enough, but Victron is trying to cover all possible installations and this is not a solar installation with potential array output exceeding the wire ampacity.

I understand the reasoning behind adding panel-to-controller and controller-to-battery isolation switches, but a question for those installing over-current protection as well: do you consider the Escape solar installation unsafe because it does not include this protection?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

You meant 4.5 kWh (not kW), right? The charging power would be less than 800 watts (55 A @ ~14.5 V).

yeah, sorry. I'm usually really careful with that.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Fair enough, but Victron is trying to cover all possible installations and this is not a solar installation with potential array output exceeding the wire ampacity.

I understand the reasoning behind adding panel-to-controller and controller-to-battery isolation switches, but a question for those installing over-current protection as well: do you consider the Escape solar installation unsafe because it does not include this protection?

Our point of view is a bit different than others here perhaps, in that we don't have our 5.0 yet and thus haven't experienced any trailer electrical problems. We can't evaluate ETI's electrical installation. Also, not making any trailer electrician level knowledge claims.

Our goal is a DYI install of 4 Li batteries & hoping they can provide a level of power so that we don't spend a lot of time checking & monitoring batteries while camping without hookups. We don't want power level monitoring to be a full time job and it would be great to never need our generator or use it perhaps every 4 or 5 days or longer.
With that as our goal, we are good at researching what info is available, following component manufacturer recommendations, and making choices that look to treat these pricey batteries in a optimal way, as their best performance furthers hitting our goals. That, and it doesn't look like there is enough room to add more batteries without a great deal of restructuring. We are choosing components capable of handling more solar power as we believe panel tech will improve over time. Also, wiring to handle a larger inverter, which may or may not be necessary.

We have done enough DYI electrical work flipping houses, working on cars & our Harleys to handle the mechanics of the electrical instructions/recommendations that are available, while intentionally errorring on the side of overkill a bit. As said, we hope to do this once and then forget about it. Not looking for a full time job.

[alanerickson]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Our goal is a DYI install of 4 Li batteries & hoping they can provide a level of power so that we don't spend a lot of time checking & monitoring batteries while camping without hookups.

Without knowing anything about your setup, unless you have a compressor fridge or plan on using the microwave a lot, four Li batteries is probably overkill. Again though, it depends on your situation.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by alanerickson

Without knowing anything about your setup, unless you have a compressor fridge or plan on using the microwave a lot, four Li batteries is probably overkill. Again though, it depends on your situation.

That's the goal. Actually our almost completed 5.0 delivery is delayed again waiting on the next shipment of 3-way refrigs. Hoping you are right to the point of leaving the generator at home. Also, less cycles. Hoping to never buy batteries again on this trailer. Old enough for a one & done on the batteries.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I would get 2 x 200AH rather than 4 x 100AH, but thats me. Loving the SOK Battery 12V 206AH's I just installed, nice metal cases, built to be servicable (you can replace the BMS, and you can replace any individual cell)

the 2 x 206's can be fit back in the rear corner of the curb side dinette on my E21 classic, I suspect much the same for a 5.0. note they are just sitting there in this picture, I haven't made my mounting brackets yet.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I would get 2 x 200AH rather than 4 x 100AH, but thats me. Loving the SOK Battery 12V 206AH's I just installed, nice metal cases, built to be servicable (you can replace the BMS, and you can replace any individual cell)

the 2 x 206's can be fit back in the rear corner of the curb side dinette on my E21 classic, I suspect much the same for a 5.0. note they are just sitting there in this picture, I haven't made my mounting brackets yet.

Agree, that's a great pic showing how 2-200's fit. When did you pick up those batteries? If we were buying right now those SOK's would get a much harder look.

When we first looked at 5.0's people may be surprised that the ETI config guides at that time had a 4-Li battery option one could select. Those config guides were removed in a short time for the Build sheets we see today with only a 2-Li battery option. That began our research on Li battery options. We had opportunity to exchange email with Karl who assured us 4-Li batteries would fit and the Li Ready option could support 4 batteries. He told us ETI would not offer that option until some point in the future.
Betting if they did offer that option today it may be 2-200's.

Li batteries options are moving at light speed. Last year SOK's looked to come out of nowhere from China with little history. Reviews since are good now. Now there are many 200 battery options to chose from. We might have went with 200's if buying now.

Our daughter lives in CO & we have a lot of family in the northwest where sudden cold snaps in the shoulder seasons happen and we plan some Alaska trips. We picked up our batteries some time ago, last year, & have them waiting to install. Our heated BB's may be handy to have which was a factor in our choice. Last year the BB 100's were the only batteries we found with that option. Our metal storage building in FL gets quite hot in the summers. BB's have a good record of high temp tolerance, as well, so they are a good choice for our needs.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Agree, that's a great pic showing how 2-200's fit. When did you pick up those batteries? If we were buying right now those SOK's would get a much harder look.

I got them through Amazon, resold by CurrentConnected, who are an authorized US based SOK reseller. apparently they get a batch each month, and they sell out nearly immediately.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by Mark J

Actually, I do have a couple questions for the electrical experts. Our trailer was wired with two separate 8 awg ground wires going to two different places of the frame. One comes off the back of the WFCO panel and shares the stud with about 7 more black wires (haven’t traced them all out). The other chassis ground is wired directly to the ground terminal on the inverter. No longer using any of the three ETI #8 awg chassis grounds in our 5.0

1) I thought there should only be one chassis ground in the system?

We just finished up our electrics upgrade and miraculously everything is working properly.
Redoing the grounds was part of the upgrade. Now using single 4/0 cable in the rear, thru bolted to the chassis and added a negative busbar at the WFCO with everything on good connectors, both tied back to Lynx distributors. No longer using any of the three ETI #8 awg chassis grounds.

[Flyfisherdan]

A thank you to: Rubicon, MVA, and Mark for your input about the PD Wildcat upgrade. I replaced the WFCO 8955 with the PD 4655TV converter this spring when I installed 2 GC2 Battleborns. I also upgraded all the DC wiring to 4 AWG, installed a sturdier grounding post bolt, added a 60A circuit breaker to replace the old 30A thermal breaker.

I couldn't be more pleased with the results. The PD converter consistently puts out 41-49A when charging. I can now fully charge my batteries after a camping trip in the time in takes to unload and clean the trailer. I thought long and hard about whether to upgrade to the Battleborns. I am glad that I did and won't miss watering, checking, or equalizing my old 6 V flooded batteries.

One final note. I also have been using the Victron 500A Smartshunt for several years (even before this upgrade). Once it was programmed for the Battleborns and had several charge cycles, it has been super accurate. Highly recommend this combination of batteries, converter, and monitor.

[alanerickson]

Nice work on the electrical. I re-did a little of mine a couple of weeks ago, so I somewhat know the work that's involved (at least for me it took me a lot more than I thought it would).

Thornwave PowerMon shunt is another good option. I got mine up and going a couple of weeks ago and have been impressed with it. Picture of a couple of the screens available is attached. This is three screen shots pasted together, so each screen on the phone is a third of that.