Winter Water - Potential Freeze Issue…

[EscapeBoulder]

I have a conundrum. Hopefully you can help.

After watching Escape’s new “winterizing with air” video, I decided to winterize our 19’ers water system using my compressor instead of the pink RV antifreeze.

I followed Escape’s instructions: emptied all tanks, set the hot water tank intake and exit tubes on bypass, blew out all faucets, toilet, etc. But, of course forgot something: Running the water pump to clear it of water.

A couple of days later, I remembered that I forgot, and sure enough I could see frozen water in the line from the fresh water tank to the water pump.

I live in Colorado where we can go from a hard freeze one day, to warm the next. So, after things had warmed up enough to thaw everything out, I watered up the trailer, and properly compressed air winterized the trailer again. This time remembering to run the water pump.

But I noticed the water pump wasn’t pumping with a lot of pressure, and the faucets would just spit & gurgle.

So… I figured I’d frozen the pump and ordered and have now installed a new one.

Now with the new pump, I’m getting the same result. Very low water pressure. The pump never turns off. Water coming out the kitchen faucet just gurgles and spits. And when I turn off the pump, the water in the tubing between the pump and fresh water tank runs back down into the fresh water tank. (It’s unclear to me if that’s normal behavior, or an indication of the problem and I’ve never look at/for that in the past.)

Of course, one possibility might be that there is a leak (crack) somewhere upstream from the water pump. But if there is, looking for a water leak I can not find any evidence of it. I’ve looked everywhere tubing goes I can without tearing into walls, removing the refrigerator to get behind it, etc.

Another thought is might there be a broken check valve at the bottom of the fresh water tank, where it allows water to flow toward the pump, but not back into the tank. If such exists and is broken, maybe the pump isn’t getting enough pressure on it’s freshwater tank side to effectively pump?

But… To see if that might be the problem, I took the pink antifreeze tubing shunt, and tried pumping water from a gallon jug into the system instead of from the fresh water tank. Same result. Very weak draw of water, and spitting and gurgling at the kitchen sink cold water faucet side.

I’ve unscrewed the strainer on the fresh water tank side of the pump, and it was clean and doesn’t seem to be a problem. But…?

I'd like to activate the water system again as we'd like to head south for a little November camping.

Any thoughts and suggestion will be much appreciated.

[Dave Walter]

I find that with my (19 and 15B) trailers, it sometimes takes quite a long time for the air to exit the lines after winterizing with compressed air and then refilling the system with water the next spring. The taps seem to spit and fizzle for quite a while until the air is gone (5-10 minutes at least) and then the pump works much better (and is also much quieter).

[EdColorado]

https://youtu.be/aL_3kz7y2zM

Might help.
Video by Escape

[EscapeBoulder]

Thank you for the replies. I’ve tried everything discussed. Ran the water thru the pump for greater than an hour. Did the prime at the strainer that Reace suggested. Adjusted the 5/64th hex screw that Reace demonstrated. Nothing helped. It makes me wonder if I have a crack/leak in the hidden tubing (but which I feel should have been blown out). Anyway, I’ve written support at Escape to see if they have any further suggestions. Thank you, again.

[Perry Butler]

EscapeBoulder,

Because of problems like you had, plus on Feb 2, 1996, Minnesota had the coldest day on record -60F, after which camper owners found out some antifreeze froze and caused damage, I blow with air first , then winterize with RV antifreeze, and finally blow the antifreeze out of the lines before winter comes. Takes about 30 minutes.

This will use no more antifreeze than someone who doesn't blow first, and three times any water should be removed before winter sets in.

Never have heard a good reason for leaving the antifreeze in all winter just to blow it out in the spring. I probably will now though.

Still have to remember to empty your hot water tank, and pour antifreeze in your P traps.

Enjoy,

Perry

[rubicon327]

If it continues to spit and gurgle you are definitely sucking in air somewhere. There is really nothing to go wrong down at the tank and pickup line - that just thaws out. Take a very close look at the plastic strainer at the the pump inlet. I was troubleshooting water pressure issues on my neighbors class A a few years ago and found a hairline crack in the removable strainer cap was allowing in air. If water was left in the strainer which it sounds like it was that would be my first suspect since you already replaced the pump.

[EscapeBoulder]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

If it continues to spit and gurgle you are definitely sucking in air somewhere. There is really nothing to go wrong down at the tank and pickup line - that just thaws out. Take a very close look at the plastic strainer at the the pump inlet. I was troubleshooting water pressure issues on my neighbors class A a few years ago and found a hairline crack in the removable strainer cap was allowing in air. If water was left in the strainer which it sounds like it was that would be my first suspect since you already replaced the pump.

Rubicon327: Good advice! In my communications with Escape this afternoon they also recommended replacing the strainer. So, it's most suspect at this point. I've ordered one, and will be installing it when it arrives mid-week. I'll also stock up on all the plastic connectors / valve between the pump and tank, and replace them one at a time, 'til I find the issue.

Thank you, again for your experience and advice.

[UncleTim]

I am theorizing so bear with me here.

When you isolated the system and tried pumping from the winterizing tube, you set up a clear path to water that had no obstructions. So it seems like a pumping issue. If it won't pull fluid out of a small tube inserted into water that is right in front of you, then your system is probably fine and the problem most likely limited to the pumps inability to develop head.

I don't think it is a blockage or an air gap below the pump.

Does that make sense? I'm new around here.

Could you set up the old pump with a separate 12v current and water supply and test for electrical problems?

[EscapeBoulder]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

I am theorizing so bear with me here.

When you isolated the system and tried pumping from the winterizing tube, you set up a clear path to water that had no obstructions. So it seems like a pumping issue. If it won't pull fluid out of a small tube inserted into water that is right in front of you, then your system is probably fine and the problem most likely limited to the pumps inability to develop head.

I don't think it is a blockage or an air gap below the pump.

Does that make sense? I'm new around here.

Could you set up the old pump with a separate 12v current and water supply and test for electrical problems?

When I get the strainer replaced, we'll see. There are also two fittings between the strainer and the water tank: A 90 deg elbow, and a "T" connector / valve for the RV antifreeze shunt. Now that I've been educated more on it (see above), the symptoms definitely indicate an air leak between the pump and freshwater tank.

[UncleTim]

I think it is fair to say, these are high maintenance vehicles. They seem to be.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

I am theorizing so bear with me here.

When you isolated the system and tried pumping from the winterizing tube, you set up a clear path to water that had no obstructions. So it seems like a pumping issue. If it won't pull fluid out of a small tube inserted into water that is right in front of you, then your system is probably fine and the problem most likely limited to the pumps inability to develop head.

I don't think it is a blockage or an air gap below the pump.

Does that make sense? I'm new around here.

Could you set up the old pump with a separate 12v current and water supply and test for electrical problems?

I cleaned the pump inlet strainer on my trailer and when replacing back, didn't get it seated correctly and caused a small air leak. The water pump acted exactly like the OP's problem.

Since the rule when a new problem crops up is to revisit what was just worked on, I found the mis-seated strainer bowl, seated it correctly, and the pump picked up suction immediately. It doesn't take much of a air leak for the pump to lose suction and quit pumping.

A cracked strainer housing would definitely do it.

If you wanted to test - disconnect the strainer and connect a section of tubing directly to the suction of the pump with the end of the tubing in a container of water. If the pump picks up pressure, a leak in the suction of the pump is for sure the problem.

[EscapeBoulder]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

I think it is fair to say, these are high maintenance vehicles. They seem to be.

Hm... When I'm talking to folks about owning a travel trailer, I tell them to expect some maintenance. My feeling is...

Houses & automobiles are fairly low maintenance.
Airplanes & boat are high maintenance.
Travel trailers sit somewhere in-between.

Of course, the current water issues is my fault for not draining the water from the water pump before we had a hard freeze.

[UncleTim]

So what you are saying is; in order to feel better I have to buy an airplane AND a boat now?

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by EscapeBoulder

Hm... When I'm talking to folks about owning a travel trailer, I tell them to expect some maintenance. My feeling is...

Houses & automobiles are fairly low maintenance.
Airplanes & boat are high maintenance.
Travel trailers sit somewhere in-between.

Of course, the current water issues is my fault for not draining the water from the water pump before we had a hard freeze.

Actually my Escape is probably lowest maintenance I own. Power boats and planes are definitely highest due to their motors, homes can be but my house is low, my trailer is use dependent as is my automobile or truck, more use, more maintenance.

[EscapeBoulder]

Epilogue: Dustin at Escape and Rubicon327 were correct. The strainer must have had a crack in it. I just installed a new strainer, and everything now works again as it should. :-)

I won't forget to run the water pump when blowing out the water system. You can bet on that!