GVWR reduced?

[simmonjam1]

Has anyone noticed on the escape website that the GVWR on some of the trailers have been reduced? Anyone know why?

[Selkirk]

I just noticed that as well. The 19 went from 5000 down to 4400? That's lighter than the old gen1 versions, I believe.

My well-optioned 19 has the original 5000lb GVWR rating, with the dry weight on the heavy side at about 3600lbs. That would only give me 800lbs for cargo/water with the new rating!?

I wonder if they went to lighter axles? If so why?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

The 19 went from 5000 down to 4400? That's lighter than the old gen1 versions, I believe.

The Gen1 19's have a GVWR of 4000#.

[SRS]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

I just noticed that as well. The 19 went from 5000 down to 4400? That's lighter than the old gen1 versions, I believe.

My well-optioned 19 has the original 5000lb GVWR rating, with the dry weight on the heavy side at about 3600lbs. That would only give me 800lbs for cargo/water with the new rating!?

I wonder if they went to lighter axles? If so why?

I got Samuel's email today with the E23 update and the reduced GVWR ratings. Clicked the link to the weight info and my 2022 17A has the same base weight of 2,290lbs and the same 3,500lbs torque-flex axle but the GVWR is now 3,000lbs rather than the 3,500lbs of mine. So, I'm wondering, did they just change the numbers so buyers think the trailers are lighter, did they decide their GVWR ratings were too high, or did they make a structural change to the frame? My trailer weight loaded is about 3,000lbs and certainly doesn't seem overloaded.

[CarlNH]

There was some discussion of this on the Facebook owners' page. Seems like a bit of a mystery to me. My 2018 weighs 4850 lb now... I'm a full-timer so am loaded pretty heavily including my truck with all my stuff. There has been no explanation as to why the specs were lowered. Strangely enough, the E21 with the same frame construction and axles as the E19 is speced at 5000 lb. Makes no sense. Leads me to think it's a marketing ploy to attract potential customers with less capable tow vehicles? Not a good thing for those of us who want the original payload capacity. Thoughts?

[Selkirk]

I agree it doesn't make much sense if the reduction is purely a marketing gimmick. In fact, the relatively heavy GVWR and robust cargo capacity of the 19 was a big selling point for me. It gave me the impression that the trailer was overbuilt for its size and I would never have to worry about overloading it.

I'm not sure how many additional cars/trucks/SUVs realistically qualify as a TV for the 19 with the "new" GVWR ratings. Given my personal experience towing my 19 with a 4000-4200lbs travel weight / 450lb tongue weight with a Tacoma, I can't conceive using a tow vehicle with a lesser capacity (especially under 5000lbs) to lug it around.

It would be a different story if ETI managed to reduce both dry weight and GVWR by 600lbs (IE by using an aluminum frame and acrylic windows).

[brroberts]

Wow, I thought I had a heavy E19 at 4,650lbs. Our tongue weight is around 550lbs however.

[joebuoy]

I placed a deposit for an E19 this April and signed the build sheet around the first of May. At that time the E19 web page and all my build sheet configurations showed a 5000 GVWR. Our trailer went into production on July 18th.

I saw this thread and asked about the GVWR reduction and impact to my E19 trailer. I exchanged emails with ETI over a couple weeks.

ETI replied my trailer would have the new 4400 GVWR. I was not a happy camper. I asked what caused the lowering of the GVWR. ETI stated there was no change in the production process, no change to the frame and no change to the axles.

I got this response for the reason from ETI management "The GVWR for the E19 has been reduced (for new build trailers) from 5000 lbs to 4400 lbs. This is to allow customers with tow vehicles with a smaller than 5000 lbs towing capacity to tow this unit. They have to be able to tow 4400 lbs safely".

I started complaining about changing the GVWR on my trailer after I had signed the build sheet and that I had received no communication from ETI about the reduction. If I had know in April about the GVWR reduction, I might have cancelled my order. I requested/demanded that my trailer be rated at 5000 GVWR.

Yesterday ETI agreed to change the tags/labels on my recently completed trailer to reflect a 5000 GVWR. I have asked for photo confirmation.

It seems ETI overlooked (that's how I interpreted the phone call) trailers with signed build sheets before the GVWR reduction was on the web pages and had trailers that were in production or about to start production.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by joebuoy

I placed a deposit for an E19 this April and signed the build sheet around the first of May. At that time the E19 web page and all my build sheet configurations showed a 5000 GVWR. Our trailer went into production on July 18th.

I saw this thread and asked about the GVWR reduction and impact to my E19 trailer. I exchanged emails with ETI over a couple weeks.

ETI replied my trailer would have the new 4400 GVWR. I was not a happy camper. I asked what caused the lowering of the GVWR. ETI stated there was no change in the production process, no change to the frame and no change to the axles.

I got this response for the reason from ETI management "The GVWR for the E19 has been reduced (for new build trailers) from 5000 lbs to 4400 lbs. This is to allow customers with tow vehicles with a smaller than 5000 lbs towing capacity to tow this unit. They have to be able to tow 4400 lbs safely".

The rationale from ETI seems flawed. The trailer can be built to any GVWR based on axle, frame and other parameters. What matters is the actual trailer weight with full tanks and contents going down the road. The customer is responsible for having a tow vehicle rated and capable for the load. Based on the Trailer Weights in the Real World spreadsheet there are going to be owners of the 19 now on the ragged edge and will be thinking they are overloading their trailers when they are not. Am I missing something?

[brroberts]

I’d be over the ragged edge now and probably would have bought something else to keep from being illegal.

[Selkirk]

Their rationale seems exceptionally flawed to me....

Why take a trailer solidly engineered for a 5000lb GVWR and derate it to 4400lbs for no other reason than to make it more appealing for potential customers who own tow vehicles with a sub-5000lb capacity?

How much does that decision really open up the market? How many potential customers are there that would have not have originally considered the 19 due to TV limitations vs potential customers you loose who valued the original weight rating that now can't legally take advantage of the 19's "true" cargo carrying capability (and don't want to upsize to the 21) ?

Realistically, how many tow vehicles with a sub-5000lb tow capacity can "safely" tow the 19 with the reduced GVWR?

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by simmonjam1

Has anyone noticed on the escape website that the GVWR on some of the trailers have been reduced? Anyone know why?

As I posted on Facebook.

Maybe since the GVWR determines what vehicles can legally tow the trailer Escape is further lowering the GVWR to sell more trailers to people with less capable tow vehicles. Sounds like something a private equity firm would do, put profits over safety.

The new GVWRs are about 1000 lbs over the dry weight of a base trailer. That's where I'm guessing they came up with them.

[joebuoy]

Our E19 build sheet with the options, ETI estimates the dry shipping weight to be 3537 pounds. Add some water to the fresh water tank and non empty gray/black tanks, there isn't much capacity remaining in the trailer for your stuff at 4400 pounds.

I did a quick search, there are several SUVs with a towing capacity around 4400 pounds. I'm not sure how adequate these SUVs would be for towing an E19.

I have a 2018 4Runner but will probably upgrade to a 1/2 ton truck in the future.

[CarlNH]

So, here's what I'm thinking... Escape took full advantage of the pandemic-induced soaring demand both by increasing production and dramatically increasing prices. Now that the pandemic demand has evaporated, they find them themselves with much less demand and even with inventory they are unable to move without offering perks like free delivery and raffles, etc. My feeling is that the reduced GVWR is a desperate attempt to lure a few more buyers. While, at the same time, evidently ignoring the fact that potential informed buyers will pass on the trailers due to the reduced payload. Thoughts?

[occer]

The answer that it’s the same trailer and they lowered the GVW so people with smaller cars can tow it.

That answer sounds like it was pulled out of their ……………, or maybe after several beers.

My money is on, they plan on buying lighter (less expensive) axles and maybe lighter frames to save on build costs.
They still have left over stock so the resent builds are still 5000 GVW, but as they start using the new stock parts the new GVW will become the norm. Now to get back to my beer!

[CarlNH]

Originally Posted by occer

The answer that it’s the same trailer and they lowered the GVW so people with smaller cars can tow it.

That answer sounds like it was pulled out of their ……………, or maybe after several beers.

My money is on, they plan on buying lighter (less expensive) axles and maybe lighter frames to save on build costs.
They still have left over stock so the resent builds are still 5000 GVW, but as they start using the new stock parts the new GVW will become the norm. Now to get back to my beer!

That would be unfortunate!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

The new GVWRs are about 1000 lbs over the dry weight of a base trailer. That's where I'm guessing they came up with them.

Full tanks would be over 600#. That is not much headroom for stuff in the trailer in the event you need to haul with full tanks.

[Micheal K]

Originally Posted by occer

My money is on, they plan on buying lighter (less expensive) axles and maybe lighter frames to save on build costs.
They still have left over stock so the resent builds are still 5000 GVW, but as they start using the new stock parts the new GVW will become the norm. Now to get back to my beer!

Dexter Torflex #9 axles max out at 2200 lbs.
Hmm, what’s 2 x 2200?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Micheal K

Dexter Torflex #9 axles max out at 2200 lbs.
Hmm, what’s 2 x 2200?

don't forget the tongue weight in your GWR computation.

But, I thought the axles on my 2014 21' were rated at 3000 or 3500 lbs each, with two of them you could in theory have 7000 lbs on them.... in 2014, the 21 was rated at 4500 lbs GWR, but considering the build of the trailer, I've treated that as more of a suggestion than a hard limitation

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

As I posted on Facebook.

Maybe since the GVWR determines what vehicles can legally tow the trailer Escape is further lowering the GVWR to sell more trailers to people with less capable tow vehicles. Sounds like something a private equity firm would do, put profits over safety.

The new GVWRs are about 1000 lbs over the dry weight of a base trailer. That's where I'm guessing they came up with them.

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Full tanks would be over 600#. That is not much headroom for stuff in the trailer in the event you need to haul with full tanks.

In all likelihood Escape isn't changing from the current 3500lb Dexter Axles or anything else on the trailer. So the trailer is still is capable of a total weight 5000 lbs. And Escape can sell the trailers to people with smaller tow vehicles. But, that transfers the liability for 'overloading' the trailer to the consumer and off of Escape. Which brings us back to the days where people would say you need a tow vehicle capable of hauling 20%+ more than the trailers GVRW. It seems to me to all be just playing with the numbers for marketing, and liability.