4 Season Escape 19

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Today I tried out the high backed chair at West Marine. It has a good seat cushion and I like the way the seat back can ratchet into more than one angle. But what killed it for me was the way it forces my shoulders to hunch over. They make it a little bit thicker in that area, and I know it would drive me nuts after while. Lumbar area could have used a bit more material, perhaps, but that was minor.

Then I tried the low backed version. The back was flat and seemed fine, however the seat cushion is far less cushiony and my butt bottomed out immediately on the frame rear the rear of the seat.

The guy said the high backed chairs have become hugely popular with the rodeo crowd. They are loved by wives who have to sit in the bleachers all day watching their husbands ride. I can imagine that a 5'4" or 5'5" gal's shoulders would rest against the back at a lower point, which makes the chair ideal for someone of that stature. I'm only 5'8" but it just wasn't right for me.

Many years ago I had an opportunity to sit in an original Eames lounge chair, the icon of luxurious seating. It was not comfortable for me: it was famously designed for a shorter person and simply did not fit my 6' body. Its owner in this case was a short man and it fit him like a glove. I have since found that many chairs are designed for shorter bodies and are not for me. Like you I can tell by the rolling of the shoulders that it is not right. I need to sit in a chair first before considering buying one - no internet ordering here.

Greg

[Jim Bennett]

One of the biggest problems I see with some of the more "luxurious" setups is how you deal with four people for meals, games and socializing. Making up the front bed for friends and grandkids is important to us too, especially the latter.

Seeing we opted for a smaller trailer to better travel around with we make due with the factory dinette though did add one level firmer seat cushions. They are not bad for an evening of having fun, We have 4 at the dinette many times yearly.

Reading I do at the dinette and in my bed. We don't do the TV thing at this time.

I do like seeing what others do though. Some very good ideas out there. Good to see folks making things better for themselves. Maybe once I get older, who knows.

[Traildad]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

One of the biggest problems I see with some of the more "luxurious" setups is how you deal with four people for meals, games and socializing. Making up the front bed for friends and grandkids is important to us too, especially the latter.

Seeing we opted for a smaller trailer to better travel around with we make due with the factory dinette though did add one level firmer seat cushions. They are not bad for an evening of having fun, We have 4 at the dinette many times yearly.

Reading I do at the dinette and in my bed. We don't do the TV thing at this time.

I do like seeing what others do though. Some very good ideas out there. Good to see folks making things better for themselves. Maybe once I get older, who knows.

It’d be tough to make a 19 footer be comfortable for two and seat four at the same time. We need to make our choices or buy a 30 footer.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Traildad

It’d be tough to make a 19 footer be comfortable for two and seat four at the same time. We need to make our choices or buy a 30 footer.

Though I now have a 5.0TA I had a 19 for over 6 years ad both my brothers do. On a recent 3 month trip with one of them 4 of us ate many meals and played games all evening both in their trailer or ours. A couple cocktails may have been involved too.

But, if you could put in bigger cozy chairs/seats you could not easily accommodate more people. While we want and need room for four I think there are some that only camp alone. Socializing and eating make up the majority of our time in the trailer, aside from sleeping that is.

My grandkids would be bummed out too.

And please don't take my posts as a negative towards those who wish to make a more cozy lounging area, they are to offer other thoughts while making choices. We all have differing needs.

[Traildad]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Though I now have a 5.0TA I had a 19 for over 6 years ad both my brothers do. On a recent 3 month trip with one of them 4 of us ate many meals and played games all evening both in their trailer or ours. A couple cocktails may have been involved too.

But, if you could put in bigger cozy chairs/seats you could not easily accommodate more people. While we want and need room for four I think there are some that only camp alone. Socializing and eating make up the majority of our time in the trailer, aside from sleeping that is.

My grandkids would be bummed out too.

And please don't take my posts as a negative towards those who wish to make a more cozy lounging area, they are to offer other thoughts while making choices. We all have differing needs.

Everybody gets to choose what’s most important to them. One of the options built into my setup is, it’s not permanent. Everything comes out leaving four screw holes. We could easily convert back to the factory setup. Grandkids can always sleep in a tent and I probably wouldn’t plan to take them in the cold and rain when a comfortable place for us to sit is most important.

[Perry Butler]

While we loved our 5.0 the one issue for me was the uncomfortable seating. I'm 190 pounds and my butt would compress the foam so it was uncomfortable. After a half hour of sitting it felt like I was sitting on plywood. I had to add a thin camping cushion above the seat cushion to get some comfort, however too thick a cushion and my legs would dangle. After my health scare (pacemaker) we decided to go back to a Bigfoot.

The first thing I noticed was how comfortable Bigfoot's dinette was to sit. After talking to a couple of others I found that Bigfoot uses higher quality, higher density cushions. Had I known that, I would have just purchased higher density foam for the bottom cushions.

There are many times I wish we had our 5.0 back.

Food for thought,

Perry

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Perry Butler

While we loved our 5.0 the one issue for me was the uncomfortable seating. I'm 190 pounds and my butt would compress the foam so it was uncomfortable. After a half hour os sitting it felt like I was sitting on plywood. I had to add a thin camping cushion above the seat cushion to get some comfort, however too thick a cushion and my legs would dangle. After my health scare (pacemaker) we decided to go back to a Bigfoot.

The first thing I noticed was how comfortable Bigfoot's dinette was to sit. After talking to a couple of others I found that Bigfoot uses higher quality, higher density cushions. Had I known that, I would have just purchased higher density foam for the bottom cushions.

There are many times I wish we had our 5.0 back.

Food for thought,

Perry

They say 'hindsight is 20:20." And that applies to hindquarter seat cushions, too!

[Ellen]

We own an older (2009) Escape 19 (with all original cushions at the dinette) and have many times sat four at the dinette for dinner and/or games when weather dictated. I keep a few down throw pillows so we/friends can add those to the lower back area for support. My secret to making it work for four is I keep a Bucket Buddy (I think that’s the name) handy to sit on at the end of the table. It’s a taller 5gal bucket with an air-fillled seat-lid. I’m always up and down getting something so it allows everyone to stay seated and I’m comfortable enough for dinner and games. It sits against the bathroom wall when not being used and is my “liquor cabinet” as well. We’re not huge drinkers, but it safely holds a few bottles, sits on the runner rug and never moves around in transit.
When husband and I sit and read/drink coffee, we sit with our legs extended on our bench seat, pillows behind our back, quite comfortable in that way. Not like home, but we’re camping and it works well for us.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Perry Butler

After talking to a couple of others I found that Bigfoot uses higher quality, higher density cushions. Had I known that, I would have just purchased higher density foam for the bottom cushions.

Getting the right foam for the application is critical. You always want high density foam for its longer life, but also a better "feel" (density and firmness are two different parameters). For sleeping a (relatively) less firm foam is needed because your weight is spread out, while for sitting a firmer foam is needed to support the higher concentration of weight. This should be pretty easy to work out by going to a provider and testing for your preferences on samples. Where it gets a bit messy is when you have a settee that is used both for sleeping and sitting. The only solution I have found that works (and works quite well) is a layered cushion. I have 5" cushions on my settees in my boat, which I usually sleep on as well (I built the settees lower than for the more common 4" foam so the feet don't dangle).. The bottom 2" is a firm seating foam, so I don't bottom out when seated. In the middle is 2" of a less firm sleeping foam, and on top is 1" of latex foam for its luxurious feel. Substitute memory foam or simply a soft foam if desired, or simply make a 2-layer cushion. Of course variations are possible, either to retain 4" (or whatever comes with the camper) or to vary the relative amount of sleeping versus seating foam. And there are multiple firmness options for either sleeping or seating. A good foam store will have samples of each foam in various thicknesses so you should be able to find a comfortable mix.

Greg

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Getting the right foam for the application is critical. You always want high density foam for its longer life, but also a better "feel" (density and firmness are two different parameters). For sleeping a (relatively) less firm foam is needed because your weight is spread out, while for sitting a firmer foam is needed to support the higher concentration of weight. This should be pretty easy to work out by going to a provider and testing for your preferences on samples. Where it gets a bit messy is when you have a settee that is used both for sleeping and sitting. The only solution I have found that works (and works quite well) is a layered cushion. I have 5" cushions on my settees in my boat, which I usually sleep on as well (I built the settees lower than for the more common 4" foam so the feet don't dangle).. The bottom 2" is a firm seating foam, so I don't bottom out when seated. In the middle is 2" of a less firm sleeping foam, and on top is 1" of latex foam for its luxurious feel. Substitute memory foam or simply a soft foam if desired, or simply make a 2-layer cushion. Of course variations are possible, either to retain 4" (or whatever comes with the camper) or to vary the relative amount of sleeping versus seating foam. And there are multiple firmness options for either sleeping or seating. A good foam store will have samples of each foam in various thicknesses so you should be able to find a comfortable mix.

Greg

Great explanation!

Thanks,

Perry

[CarinaPDX]

I should add that you shouldn't sleep on pure seating foam as it is too firm and can wreck your back (guess how I know). Sitting on sleeping foam will bottom out and is uncomfortable. Dual use settees usually come with a compromise, usually too firm for comfortable sleep and not firm enough for extended sitting. I don't think that there is any single foam that can solve this problem, at least not nearly as well as layered.

Greg

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I should add that you shouldn't sleep on pure seating foam as it is too firm and can wreck your back (guess how I know). Sitting on sleeping foam will bottom out and is uncomfortable. Dual use settees usually come with a compromise, usually too firm for comfortable sleep and not firm enough for extended sitting. I don't think that there is any single foam that can solve this problem, at least not nearly as well as layered.

Greg

Everything you wrote is very subjective. I've gotten the best sleep in my trailer sleeping on the stock foam. I've had back surgery and the best thing for my back is a very firm sleeping foam/mattress. Sleeping on concrete works for me!

Sleeping comfort is something everyone needs to figure out for themselves. You might start with the 'firmness' in your house mattress and go from there.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Everything you wrote is very subjective. I've gotten the best sleep in my trailer sleeping on the stock foam. I've had back surgery and the best thing for my back is a very firm sleeping foam/mattress. Sleeping on concrete works for me!

Sleeping comfort is something everyone needs to figure out for themselves. You might start with the 'firmness' in your house mattress and go from there.

Yes, of course everyone is quite different, which is why I recommended trying out samples before buying. A lot of it has to do with how one sleeps. Sleeping on your back is probably the best way, as long as the knees are elevated a bit to flatten the spine, and in that case the firmer the better (with perhaps a thin, soft layer on top to soften contact). I am a side sleeper so too firm foam causes the spine to bend sideways. IIUC it is best to avoid sleeping on one's front but no doubt there are many who do.

So many beds in the U.S. are terrible for backs. The first thing my orthopedist ordered was for me to put a sheet of plywood under the mattress; box springs are just a horrible idea, as are super thick mattresses. A platform bed with a quality foam mattress, perhaps 6"-8" thick, is ideal - even for a side sleeper.

I too have had back surgery (lumbar laminectomy) plus hospitalizations at other times. A good physical therapist in England put an end to all of that almost 30 years ago. It literally changed my life.

Greg

[Jim Bennett]

Yep, we all have differing needs for our trailer.

I am quite good with sitting for 4 hours at the stock dinette eating and playing games on those days where it is better than being outside, and when there is just 4 or less of us and the site is not real great.

Originally Posted by Traildad

Grandkids can always sleep in a tent and I probably wouldn’t plan to take them in the cold and rain when a comfortable place for us to sit is most important.

The ones with us most often are 1 and 5, I would not feel good having them sleep out in the cold, but hey, that's me. I like them to be comfy. And, I want them to come on our short trips as much as they will. If their mom and dad come, which they often do, they still like our trailer more than their Trillium 1300 most of the time.

We make the bed up into a dinette during the day, and evenings see us outside most of the time as that is one of the big reasons we go camping. A fire keeps us nice and cozy down to freezing temps. A dram or two of whiskey helps too.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Traildad

We decided to remove the table and the floor mount and the cushions. Then we got two plastic patio chairs and cut the rear legs off so they could be placed on top of the seat benches.... The chairs are so much more comfortable than anything we’ve tried up to now. We have a big trip coming soon and we’ll be able to give them a good test drive.

I've joined the party. After trying a "Duorest" backrest ($150!) and being no more comfortable, I found one of those Adams RealComfort plastic chairs at WM and sawed off the legs with a Dremel. I added a Purple (brand) seat cushion and a thin, low-density-foam back cushion... both of which I had lying around already. After a 5 day campout with it, I think it is the solution. I was able to sit comfortably for a couple hours at a time and my back felt well-supported.