Loud clicking noise using generator to power 9500

[revdavid]

I installed an Houghton 9500 air conditioner from RecPro on my 2022 Escape 21c. I have two Yamaha EF 2000iS generators that I connected in parallel to power the Dometic air conditioner on my previous Bigfoot trailer.
I was hoping I could power the Houghton 9500 with only one of the generators.
The Houghton 9500 is rated 1590 watts for max power draw and 1370 watts for cooling.
The Yamaha EF 2000iS is rated 2000 surge watts, and 1600 rated watts.
On paper, it looks like the generator should be able to power the 9500 air conditioner.
I put the Progressive EMS in Bypass Mode. I turned off the circuit breaker powering the WFCO converter, and fridge was off.
When the air conditioner compressor came on, there was a LOUD, RAPID clicking sound from the area of the WFCO converter. I quickly shut off the air conditioner. During the loud clicking, power to the air conditioner was greatly reduced.
Any ideas what the clicking sound was? What was happening?

[revdavid]

I know that RecPro recommends a larger generator. From their description of the 9500:
“This AC unit requires a minimum 2500-watt generator with a dedicated 30-amp service. Using a lower-rated generator may cause difficulty when starting the AC unit or may require a soft starter. It is recommended to use a 3000-watt generator with a dedicated 30-amp service.”
I have also read that some have had success using the Honda EU2000i generator to power the Houghton 9500. The Honda EU200i is almost identical to the Yamaha EF 2000iS

[7Gentex]

I've had gens shut off (and / or show overload) and A/C's shut down, but............? This is a new one to me.

"a LOUD, RAPID clicking sound from the area of the WFCO converter"

Seems you were at the gen limit on paper.

Also, Yamaha gens have a "reputation" for not delivering full rating and cutting out....

What did the EMS readout show in amps, if known.....?

How did you know "power was reduced"?

There is really nothing to "click" besides a breaker......which should not in this situation.

What happens if you parallel your 2 gens?

[jack sparrow]

Hey revdavid,
Do you have solar on your rig Just thinking if you did and have a transfer switch, it may be the relay in it flipping back and forth. Just a thought.


Cheers to ya ..... and Happy Trails...... Jack

[revdavid]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

I've had gens shut off (and / or show overload) and A/C's shut down, but............? This is a new one to me.

What did the EMS readout show in amps, if known.....?

How did you know "power was reduced"?

What happens if you parallel your 2 gens?

EMS was switched off (Bypass mode)
Before I could get the a/c switched off, it sounded like the fan slowed down.
Works when the two generators are hooked up in parallel.

[revdavid]

Originally Posted by jack sparrow

Hey revdavid,
Do you have solar on your rig Just thinking if you did and have a transfer switch, it may be the relay in it flipping back and forth. Just a thought.

Jack, it does sound like a relay! I thought switching off the circuit breakers would isolate the transfer switch.

[jack sparrow]

Hi revdavid,


I don't think so..... transfer switch takes shore power to switch between your converter and inverter. The transfer switch would be on the main line coming in before the breakers. This is assuming that you have solar and a inverter installed in your trailer.


The EMS and transfer switch are two different animals. If transfer switch has shore power, the contacts in it make connection and allow shore power to go to your control center (breakers) and you have power. If there is no shore power the transfer switch contacts are engaged to allow power to flow from you inverter to a separate breaker box in your trailer that should have two 15 amp breakers in it that feed your a/c outlets.


This all said, is if your trailer is wired up like this. I don't know really what you have or how your trailer is wired up. I have a 2023 21ne and what I described is how I wired up my own transfer switch and inverter system. The EMS on my system is installed before the transfer switch. So my EMS checks the in coming line for the power coming into my trailer before it allows power to run to the transfer switch, once it does then the relay in the transfer switch flip over to make the connection to send power to the control panel breakers. Thus giving you power. This relay is the only thing that I can think of that might be giving you the clicking sound. Just my thought, my two cents.


Good luck...


Cheers..... to ya and Happy Trails......... Jack

[7Gentex]

If OP has a ETI installed transfer switch, the shore power AC supplied for such is "downstream" of the main 30 amp breaker, and also has its own 30 amp breaker. Solar is really not an item here..........

OP - if you have an inverter and the transfer switch, try cutting off the 30 amp breaker for the transfer switch (not the main on top) and see if there is any difference..............

Have your inverter off as well..............

If shore power (or gen) voltage is too low, the transfer switch relays may "chatter".

Sounds as if the solo gen is not enough..........

[revdavid]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

If OP has a ETI installed transfer switch, the shore power AC supplied for such is "downstream" of the main 30 amp breaker, and also has its own 30 amp breaker. Solar is really not an item here..........

OP - if you have an inverter and the transfer switch, try cutting off the 30 amp breaker for the transfer switch (not the main on top) and see if there is any difference..............

Have your inverter off as well..............

If shore power (or gen) voltage is too low, the transfer switch relays may "chatter".

Sounds as if the solo gen is not enough..........

Yes, I have the ETI installed transfer switch. I did cut off the 30 amp breaker for the transfer switch.

Since I got the "chatter," I agree that one generator is not enough.

Thanks for your help and insight to my issue! And thanks Jack for your insight!

David

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by revdavid

Yes, I have the ETI installed transfer switch. I did cut off the 30 amp breaker for the transfer switch.

Since I got the "chatter," I agree that one generator is not enough.

Thanks for your help and insight to my issue! And thanks Jack for your insight!

David

Did you get the chatter with the 30 amp transfer switch breaker off?

That would be odd................?

[revdavid]

Yes. I turned all the breakers off except for the 30 amp main and 20 amp air conditioner.
My original thought was that I had isolated the transfer switch by turning off the 30 amp transfer switch breaker.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by revdavid

I installed an Houghton 9500 air conditioner from RecPro on my 2022 Escape 21c. I have two Yamaha EF 2000iS generators that I connected in parallel to power the Dometic air conditioner on my previous Bigfoot trailer.
I was hoping I could power the Houghton 9500 with only one of the generators.
The Houghton 9500 is rated 1590 watts for max power draw and 1370 watts for cooling.
The Yamaha EF 2000iS is rated 2000 surge watts, and 1600 rated watts.
On paper, it looks like the generator should be able to power the 9500 air conditioner.
I put the Progressive EMS in Bypass Mode. I turned off the circuit breaker powering the WFCO converter, and fridge was off.
When the air conditioner compressor came on, there was a LOUD, RAPID clicking sound from the area of the WFCO converter. I quickly shut off the air conditioner. During the loud clicking, power to the air conditioner was greatly reduced.
Any ideas what the clicking sound was? What was happening?

Start by turning off ALL breakers except the 30 amp Main Breaker and the Air Conditioner breaker. That makes sure nothing but the air conditioner is drawing AC current. Things like the water heater can be forgotten, or even small loads like a TV might be enough to push the generator over its limit. The clicking sound could be the EMS or the Inverter Transfer Switch. Both have good sized relays.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Start by turning off ALL breakers except the 30 amp Main Breaker and the Air Conditioner breaker. That makes sure nothing but the air conditioner is drawing AC current. Things like the water heater can be forgotten, or even small loads like a TV might be enough to push the generator over its limit. The clicking sound could be the EMS or the Inverter Transfer Switch. Both have good sized relays.

Interesting idea on the EMS clicking..........as he did have all other breakers off. Also, the the EMS was in bypass.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Interesting idea on the EMS clicking..........as he did have all other breakers off. Also, the the EMS was in bypass.

The EMS circuitry still needs power to energize the relay. Pressing bypass doesn't reroute the wiring, the power still has to run through the main rely. Pressing Bypass, just tells the EMS not to do it's job. Though if the EMS relay was clicking on and off it would be completely cutting and reconnecting the 120 volt power which doesn't quite match his description.

Unless he mentioned it in a lower reply the original post said:

Originally Posted by revdavid

I turned off the circuit breaker powering the WFCO converter, and fridge was off.

Not that ALL the breakers were off.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

The EMS circuitry still needs power to energize the relay. Pressing bypass doesn't reroute the wiring, the power still has to run through the main rely. Pressing Bypass, just tells the EMS not to do it's job. Though if the EMS relay was clicking on and off it would be completely cutting and reconnecting the 120 volt power which doesn't quite match his description.

Unless he mentioned it in a lower reply the original post said:



Not that ALL the breakers were off.

Post #11 above - he states all breakers off except for main and A/C.

Guess the EMS relays can "chatter" in a low voltage situation, though I have never heard it.........maybe too quick to notice "power on/ off" from the air conditioner background noise?

Interesting............

[7Gentex]

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post112365

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post112365

[revdavid]

Thanks for finding this. The loud clattering sounds like what I experienced. I will check continuity between neutral and ground on my gen. If not bonded, I will make a neutral ground boding plug. Then try the a/c with EMS. Interesting to see what happens.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by revdavid

Thanks for finding this. The loud clattering sounds like what I experienced. I will check continuity between neutral and ground on my gen. If not bonded, I will make a neutral ground boding plug. Then try the a/c with EMS. Interesting to see what happens.

You can try it without a bonding plug and EMS on, as EMS will not allow current to flow if gen is a floating nuetral (likely).

With a bonding plug it would be interesting to see what error codes, and/or low voltage cut offs, occur.

Good luck sir!

[revdavid]

The gen has a floating ground so I made a bonding plug.

Same results. When a/c compressor kicked on, the sudden clattering noise. But this time the EMS shut down the power after 2-3 seconds.

E4 error--low voltage. Also the EMS display showed 26 amps. Not sure why it still displayed amps when it had shut down. Also how could the gen pump 26 amps? The gen didn't indicate overload.

Thanks for helping me sort through this issue!

[7Gentex]

One of the electrical gurus will be along shortly, but I'm guessing Ohm's law in some form or fashion........inverted or backwards?

i.e. - amps were high, but voltage was really low..........

like 77 volts x 26 amps = 2002 watts.........?

An EE I'm not!

I'm surprised the single Yammie 2000 won't run a 9,500 btu unit ....my ancient Honda eu2000i converted to propane (Hutch Mountain) runs my Dometic 11k fine with no soft start. Same with my Champion 2500 dual fuel. The start up draw is the key though...

I'm seeing a potential 2 for 1 sale coming up.............though 1 is none, and 2 is one