5.0TA pin box

[Wabirkland]

I’m a newbie and I’ve been lurking as well as educating myself... I originally posted a question before doing my forum homework - I appreciate you all entertaining my questions without throwing me under the bus 😉.

With COVID19 I’ve had lots of time to research this topic... having read a lot of threads (days and days) but couldn’t find anything specific to the adjustment details for the pin box. It obviously has both vertical as well as forward/aft axis travel. My question is what is the range in both axis? Full disclosure, I’m an engineer and don’t want to simply leave the details to trademasters and ETI... I enjoy being apart of the process and doing the work myself too!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

It obviously has both vertical as well as forward/aft axis travel. My question is what is the range in both axis?

It actually only adjusts vertically (bolts are used in all the holes per side in each horizontal row), and has only two positions. The rows of holes are 2.5" apart, so that's the range of adjustment. It is a Lippert model 1716, and there is a Lippert pin box measurement guide which shows the dimensions.

[Wabirkland]

I’m not sure how that’s possible considering all of the photos that indicate otherwise - where the pin box is clearly in varying positions. If I’m wrong, why the different positions of the pin box in all of the photos... am I missing something?

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

I’m not sure how that’s possible considering all of the photos that indicate otherwise - where the pin box is clearly in varying positions. If I’m wrong, why the different positions of the pin box in all of the photos... am I missing something?

Perhaps there is naming misunderstanding. There is the Pin box, then there are various models types of fifth wheel hitches, mounted in the bed of a truck, that the pin a the end of the pin box fit into for towing. The pin box itself is just the long, tapered black painted steel "box" that extends from just under the nose of the 5.0 out to the end with a steel pin on it.

Where it attaches to the trailer frame, there are 9 bolt holes in the bracket and 6 bolt holes on the tapered box all arranged in sets of 3. So the pin box can only be attached to the bracket in two positions: The Top and middle set of holes or middle and bottom set of holes. Those two settings are 2.5 inches difference.

Post #3 in this thread clearly show what I have described. https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ble-13483.html

Where the pin attached to the hitch in the truck, there is more variety based on the style and model of the 5th wheel hitch.

[Wabirkland]

Not a misunderstanding as that is what I’m referring to “The pin box itself is just the long, tapered black painted steel "box" that extends from just under the nose of the 5.0 out to the end with a steel pin on it”.
From various pictures of the 5.0TA it’s in different positions. From the link you sent me it appears to be way forward. If you look at the Escape website there are pictures of it in what appears to be an aft position. Let’s assume for the moment it does move forward/aft, and it’s in the farthest point forward, what is the distance between the center of the kin pin to the front of the trailer?

[Wabirkland]

Arnie - appreciate any insight... I also saw a post that stated some rigs are able to do 90 degree turn with short bed. I’m just curious what camp my truck falls in... just running the numbers ��.

[padlin]

At the level of the bottom of the pin, it measures 65" to the trailer subtracting 4" for the frame. On my truck, the kingpin is 1" forward of the read axle.


It does NOT go forward/backward, only up and down. Moved mine a few months ago.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

Not a misunderstanding as that is what I’m referring to “The pin box itself is just the long, tapered black painted steel "box" that extends from just under the nose of the 5.0 out to the end with a steel pin on it”.
From various pictures of the 5.0TA it’s in different positions. From the link you sent me it appears to be way forward. If you look at the Escape website there are pictures of it in what appears to be an aft position. Let’s assume for the moment it does move forward/aft, and it’s in the farthest point forward, what is the distance between the center of the kin pin to the front of the trailer?

Hi: Wabirkland... My pinbox is in the upper holes. From the center of the pin to about the front of the frame is 5' 2". I'm using a Ram 5' 7" box truck w/ 20" wheels and can back into hook up with the tailgate down. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Wabirkland]

The drawing I saw indicated 5” between the king pin and front of the trailer. So I’ve concluded that in order to make a 90 turn, the king pin needs to be at least 44” from the cab. Hence my question as it appears it may be more than 5” or no? Or is it not 5”?

[padlin]

I already gave you the actual measurement unless my tape measure is wrong. You're welcome to come over and measure for yourself.

[Wabirkland]

Bob, see enclosed diagram - for measurement I was looking for... I’d like to fly on over and measure it - just might be a couple months ;-)

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

The drawing I saw indicated 5” between the king pin and front of the trailer. So I’ve concluded that in order to make a 90 turn, the king pin needs to be at least 44” from the cab. Hence my question as it appears it may be more than 5” or no? Or is it not 5”?

Hi: Wabirkland... When discussing the trailer I mention the useable space. Length= bumper to pin - 6" front and 6" rear. I measure that by eyeball not tape measure.
I have jackknifed the rig backing into the driveway. Had to replace one of the black plastic bedrail top trim pieces. Each sold seperately. The corner of the pinbox/frame anchor tore up the plastic due to raising the pinbox to the top bolt holes!!! I'm not as perfect as I thought I was. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[padlin]

My 2014, old body style, is 6" from the front of the loft to the center of the kingpin. It may differ from the new body style.


The way things are going we'll still be here in a couple months.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

Not a misunderstanding as that is what I’m referring to “The pin box itself is just the long, tapered black painted steel "box" that extends from just under the nose of the 5.0 out to the end with a steel pin on it”.

Yep, that's the pin box.

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

I’m not sure how that’s possible considering all of the photos that indicate otherwise - where the pin box is clearly in varying positions. If I’m wrong, why the different positions of the pin box in all of the photos... am I missing something?

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

From various pictures of the 5.0TA it’s in different positions. From the link you sent me it appears to be way forward. If you look at the Escape website there are pictures of it in what appears to be an aft position.

What specific photos are you looking at? If you can link to them (or the discussion threads they're in), someone can explain what you're missing.

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

Let’s assume for the moment it does move forward/aft, and it’s in the farthest point forward, what is the distance between the center of the kin pin to the front of the trailer?

It doesn't move. If you look at the Lippert document which I linked, it shows that. Of course that document can't show the required measurement, which is determined by the trailer construction rather than just the pin box.

As already mentioned, the distance requested (which is determined by the pin box and where it is attached to the trailer's frame) will likely be different between the old 5.0 and the 5.0TA, and even between the original 5.0TA (2014-2016, such as Bob's) and the current model. The distance will also likely change with the pinbox: the last time that changed was sometime before the end of 5.0 production, as far as I know.

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by Wabirkland

Bob, see enclosed diagram - for measurement I was looking for... I’d like to fly on over and measure it - just might be a couple months ;-)

Hi, I have the current version of the 5.0 (picked up April 23, 2019) I just went outside and took the measurement you are seeking. I used a 4' level from the nose of the trailer down to the pin and measured across. It is 5 1/2 ".

It appears that the graphic you posted was for the prior body style based on Bob's measurements.

I just went to the ETI web site and can understand your confusion. The real photos, taken from different angles, distort the view a bit. But the real sin is the image at the bottom that says: "Spin Image Around!" That is a vector graphic made from a photo that is not correct at all! There is no way the pin box is tucked under the nose as it appears in that graphic!!

Those of us that own 5.0 trailers and have bonked our heads on the pin way too many times can attest to that!

Cheers!

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by arniesea

Hi, I have the current version of the 5.0 (picked up April 23, 2019) I just went outside and took the measurement you are seeking. I used a 4' level from the nose of the trailer down to the pin and measured across. It is 5 1/2 ".

It appears that the graphic you posted was for the prior body style based on Bob's measurements.

I just went to the ETI web site and can understand your confusion. The real photos, taken from different angles, distort the view a bit. But the real sin is the image at the bottom that says: "Spin Image Around!" That is a vector graphic made from a photo that is not correct at all! There is no way the pin box is tucked under the nose as it appears in that graphic!!

Those of us that own 5.0 trailers and have bonked our heads on the pin way too many times can attest to that!

Cheers!

As Marissa Tomei stated in My Cousin Vinny, “Dead-on balls accurate,” (although I have never bonked my head on the pin, just the pin box itself!).

[Brian B-P]

These two images are from the 5.0TA product page (same one that has the bad 3D model further down). They are taken with an excessively wide angle lens, causing the pin box to look too small in the side view (so it doesn't look like it sticks out forward of the body, even though it does), and too large in the front 3/4 view (so it looks like it sticks out further than it does).

Despite the appearance, these two images show an identical pinbox in the same position. The side view gives the same effect for the spare tire, which actually sticks way out from the rear of the trailer, but looks like it is recessed into the back wall in this image.

People really need to get further from vehicles and use a longer focal length to accurately represent them. This isn't just an ETI problem - it's common in used car ads, too.

[ritacasita]

So now my hitch is in the truck. Opted for B&W gooseneck. Love the Andersen hitch as it is so light and took about five minutes to install. Question now is bed cover. Wondering if I’m going to be able to leave it on in folded position or have to fold up blocking rear window or take it off. Any real life experience with this or even speculation?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by ritacasita

So now my hitch is in the truck. Opted for B&W gooseneck. Love the Andersen hitch as it is so light and took about five minutes to install. Question now is bed cover. Wondering if I’m going to be able to leave it on in folded position or have to fold up blocking rear window or take it off. Any real life experience with this or even speculation?

I use the Fold-a-Cover G4 Elite tonneau cover, along with their Cargo Toolbox in the front. The back 3 sections fold onto the front one when towing the 5.0TA with lots of room to spare. The front section only folds backwards, and exposes the toolbox, and can still be accessed with the trailer hooked up with just a bit of effort.

Not cheap, but after 5 years it is still working good. I would buy it again. Never a problem with it, and in snow or rain either it stays nice and dry.

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by ritacasita

So now my hitch is in the truck. Opted for B&W gooseneck. Love the Andersen hitch as it is so light and took about five minutes to install. Question now is bed cover. Wondering if I’m going to be able to leave it on in folded position or have to fold up blocking rear window or take it off. Any real life experience with this or even speculation?

I have the same setup: Tundra Crewmax with the 5.5 foot bed and the same cover. No, unfortunately there is not enough clearance to have the cover in the 1/3 down position. I leave the cover at home rather than in the full up position blocking my rear window.