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Old 02-26-2016, 04:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
I was also looking at the PullRite thread you started. Seems like that would also have the benefit of the pin shift also?
The other thread: SuperLite - Another 5.0TA hitch alternative
The SuperLite looks entirely symmetric to me, with the ball position centred in the frame, so if you turn it around that won't move the ball.

The similar and better-known Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection is offset (in both mounting versions), so it can be turned around to put the ball ahead of or behind the position of the parts to which it is anchored.

Both Andersen Ultimate and PullRite SuperLite involve an adapter semi-permanently clamped to the kingpin, which can be turned to put the ball ahead of or behind the pin. This does not have nearly the same effect as moving the hitch - setting up any tug having any concern with clearance to the cab will definitely include putting the ball ahead of the pin.
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Old 02-26-2016, 04:17 PM   #22
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Thanks again.
A lot of measuring and thinking is in order.
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Old 02-27-2016, 10:43 AM   #23
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See if my thinking is correct. The Andersen hitch can mount on a gooseneck hitch. I was able to find one model that is made for a 2000 Tundra with a 6.5 foot bed: a B&W 125R. It mounts 46.25 inches from the end of the bed leaving about 32 inches from the cab. The Andeseron ultimate 5th wheel king pin mount shits the ball about 5 inches to the rear plus the king pin adaptor which should give me about 37 inches give or take a little. What I don't know yet until I measure the truck which is at the shop where that puts the pin weight but I suspect given where the kingpin is mounted it will still be slightly ahead of the rear axle.

I am a complete newby at this, but I think my reasoning seems sound? Anybody else have experience with this Andersen? How easy is it to connect to the trailer?. Any rails I've found for the 2000 Tundra seem to indicate a long bed8 foot only install, so am wondering if a conventional Reese hitch would work at all, unless generic rails could be adapted.

Anyway thanks for the great response, we look forward to join the Escape community whether it's with the 5.0 (5.1?) TA or a 21 if the geometry doesn't work with my truck.
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Old 02-27-2016, 10:51 AM   #24
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The Andersen gooseneck hitch attaches to a gooseneck ball installed in the bed of the truck, normally over the rear wheels. See the new Titan XD for a picture. Has nothing to do with a conventional 5th wheel hitch like the B&W hitches. I'd suggest you take your truck to a local rv place and see if they can install the bed rails needed for a Andersen 5th wheel. That is my plan, that way you can make adjustments with the Andersen.
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Old 02-27-2016, 11:42 AM   #25
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Sorry I muddied the waters a bit. The first part of the post was about the Anderson Hitch and the Goose Neck Ball combination, which I have researched quite a bit. The second comment was about the conventional Reese hitch and the likely probability that it won't work with this truck.
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Old 02-27-2016, 12:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
Sorry I muddied the waters a bit. The first part of the post was about the Anderson Hitch and the Goose Neck Ball combination, which I have researched quite a bit. The second comment was about the conventional Reese hitch and the likely probability that it won't work with this truck.
I’m probably going to get my shot down, or better yet sunk by someone but I’m stuck at work for a few hours and I got some down time. So damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

With a 6.5 bed you should be fine with either type of hitch. With the Andersen you have a weight savings and more flexibility moving your pin fore and aft. With a traditional 5th wheel hitch you do pay a weight penalty but (for me at least) it is a little easier to hook up your trailer. We run the B&W Patriot with universal rails which also has limited fore and aft adjustments.
I will now put on my kevlar and seek cover. Scott

Scott, Lori and a Schnauzer named Fritz
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:50 PM   #27
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I think most hitches will work on most trucks, only thing effected is how sharp you can turn. Our last short box GMC worked fine with a sliding hitch which we only slid once to get into a tight spot ( our back yard ). The only other consideration is weight and if an extra few pounds of hitch puts you over on the trucks payload you are probably under trucked.

That said I will join Scott under cover.

Cheers
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Old 02-27-2016, 05:34 PM   #28
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Ball-anchored hitches

Some hitch arrangements are anchored to a towing ball mounted in the truck bed floor. The Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection is available in this format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
See if my thinking is correct. The Andersen hitch can mount on a gooseneck hitch. I was able to find one model that is made for a 2000 Tundra with a 6.5 foot bed: a B&W 125R.
Yes, B&W's Turnoverball Gooseneck Hitch Model GNRK 1251R fits a first-generation Tundra and would provide the anchor point for the "gooseneck" version of an Andersen Ultimate.

The installation instructions for this hitch don't mention any issue with box length, saying only
Quote:
Warning
On Short bed trucks, BEFORE INSTALLING THIS HITCH, check for adequate turning clearance between the front of all of your trailers and the truck cab
... suggesting that the frame in the vicinity of the axle is the same regardless of box length (which is what I would expect).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
The Andersen gooseneck hitch attaches to a gooseneck ball installed in the bed of the truck, normally over the rear wheels. See the new Titan XD for a picture. Has nothing to do with a conventional 5th wheel hitch like the B&W hitches.
Yes, that's how the "gooseneck" version of the Andersen Ultimate works. B&W now makes a range of fifth-wheel hitches, but started with a ball-in-bed-floor product (with a ball that can be stored inverted in the socket)... that's why the B&W hitch domain is "turnoverball.com". So one line of B&W products is directly relevant to the ball-anchored Andersen setup, as confirmed above.

The ball-anchoring approach can be used regardless of the type of attachment to the trailer. With Andersen hardware in the bed, it can be used with a coupler for a ball. With different hardware in the bed - such as the B&W Companion model RVK3500 - it can be used with a fifth-wheel coupling.

Both the Andersen Ultimate and the B&W Companion can be adjusted rearward for more cab-to-trailer clearance.
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Old 02-27-2016, 05:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Skool View Post
With a 6.5 bed you should be fine with either type of hitch.
Likely, but it's not quite that simple. Most full-size trucks of all brands now have about the same length of bed behind the axle, so all of those 6.5' beds will leave the same distance from cab to axle, so they all work.

The Tundra is not typical, because the bed is shifted further rearward. There's more rear overhang, so less space from cab to axle. Since 5.5' beds usually work on recent trucks, a 6.5' bed on a Tundra is promising... just not interchangeable with other 6.5' bed setups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PGDriver View Post
I think most hitches will work on most trucks, only thing effected is how sharp you can turn.
...
The only other consideration is weight...
There's also the availability of suitable brackets for mounting to the frame. Other than that, I agree with this.
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Old 02-27-2016, 05:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
See if my thinking is correct. The Andersen hitch can mount on a gooseneck hitch. I was able to find one model that is made for a 2000 Tundra with a 6.5 foot bed: a B&W 125R. It mounts 46.25 inches from the end of the bed leaving about 32 inches from the cab. The Andeseron ultimate 5th wheel king pin mount shits the ball about 5 inches to the rear plus the king pin adaptor which should give me about 37 inches give or take a little.
This matches my numbers for the Reese "industry standard" rail mounting kit, from post #19.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
What I don't know yet until I measure the truck which is at the shop where that puts the pin weight but I suspect given where the kingpin is mounted it will still be slightly ahead of the rear axle.

I am a complete newby at this, but I think my reasoning seems sound?
Since all of the mounting kits put the centre of the hitch only slightly ahead of the axle (an inch or two), after the offset rearward in the hitch framework (either Andersen Ultimate turned rearward, or B&W Companion or Patriot in the rear-most configuration) the ball or pin will be rear of the axle centreline, but anything from two to four inches depending on the combination of hardware.

Other than that, your reasoning seems sound to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
Any rails I've found for the 2000 Tundra seem to indicate a long bed8 foot only install, so am wondering if a conventional Reese hitch would work at all, unless generic rails could be adapted.
All of the bracket kits for "industry standard" rails that I've found so far for the first-generation Tundra are generic brackets with Tundra-specific installation instructions.

I think the only relevance of the reference to an 8-foot bed is that some companies (such as Reese) like to assume that the trailer is wide and so a shorter bed won't allow enough clearance to the cab. The instructions for the brackets for one truck (not the Tundra) even include a sales pitch for Reese's hinged pinbox extender as a solution, even though it is not needed for narrower trailers.
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