Ford F-150 2.7 or 3.5 EB best for towing a 5.0TA??

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by advenas

Decision for the OP is solved....Ford F150 to get diesel engine

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/2...050100428.html

Yeah, I thought long and hard about this diesel, knowing it was coming out this spring, but the Lariat confguration combined with an additional $4,000.00 plus higher maintenance costs, and I just can't justify it. I was really hoping to spend under $50K, and having owned a Dodge Cummins many years ago, I have some misgivings about owning another diesel. Just seems to me the 3.5 or 2.7 EcoBoost gets as close to the ideal truck as one can get, given what I need it for, and given that I really don't want to buy more truck than I need. I'm sure that F-150 diesel will be a sweet truck though! If anyone here buys one, I'll be interested in hearing about how they like it!

[rbryan4]

Don't get me wrong. A diesel when towing is torque city. But I'm not a customer, at least in a half ton truck, until there isn't a prohibitive premium for it. Yes, mileage is better, but my fuel and maintenance would cost more, and it'll take alot of miles to make the extra 4K cost cancel out. More mpgs is always an environmental plus, but that's also nullified somewhat by the higher pollution. More torque yes, but less acceleration and performance when not towing, which is at least half the time in my case. For every benefit there is a corresponding detriment.

With the Ecoboost I don't see any real downside. Lower initial cost, good fuel economy, lower emissions, great performance, great towing, lower maintenance and fuel costs. I've seen several cost breakdowns and studies that suggest the only way a diesel is a better deal, or even as good a deal, is when you intend to keep it for a long time - like at least 10 years - and drive it for alot of miles. Right now that doesn't fit my scenario.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

... I've seen several cost breakdowns and studies that suggest the only way a diesel is a better deal, or even as good a deal, is when you intend to keep it for a long time - like at least 10 years - and drive it for alot of miles. Right now that doesn't fit my scenario.

I've not seen studies such as you are referring to, but around my neck of the woods, people express their opinions with their wallets, and a well-maintained diesel engine holds it's value on the secondary market. Pay extra now, enjoy, recoup difference later.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I've not seen studies such as you are referring to, but around my neck of the woods, people express their opinions with their wallets, and a well-maintained diesel engine holds it's value on the secondary market. Pay extra now, enjoy, recoup difference later.

The used value my diesel trucks held was well beyond that of a gas engine, even more than the initial cost difference. In many cases a diesel was all buyers will consider. Granted, most were looking for a used tow vehicle, and these were 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks.

Like choosing an Escape trailer and options for it, there is no one fits all, and it is best to have options for the tow vehicle too.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

... Granted, most were looking for a used tow vehicle, and these were 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks. ...

Perhaps that has been due, at least in part, to the limited offering of 1/2 ton diesel trucks. It will be interesting to see how Ford's offering of a 1/2 ton diesel will hold up on the secondary market 10 or so years down the road.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Perhaps that has been due, at least in part, to the limited offering of 1/2 ton diesel trucks. It will be interesting to see how Ford's offering of a 1/2 ton diesel will hold up on the secondary market 10 or so years down the road.

I would bet lots of businesses would by them, but fewer for personal use.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

The used value my diesel trucks held was well beyond that of a gas engine, even more than the initial cost difference. In many cases a diesel was all buyers will consider. Granted, most were looking for a used tow vehicle, and these were 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks.

I can believe that... but how are the used values of Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee diesels? Even in the Ram ProMaster and Ford Transit commercial vans, new buyers (most of whom are commercial fleets) prefer the gas engines, so a higher resale for diesel doesn't seem like a given. Lighter vehicles with lower total fuel consumption (due to size and amount driven) are a different market from the working heavy-duty pickups. The engines will may also have a different reputation, although reputation and actual service history don't seem very well correlated.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I would bet lots of businesses would by them, but fewer for personal use.

In light vehicles businesses tend to buy either cheap (thus the "work truck" trim levels and Ford offering this diesel in lower trims to fleets) or whatever will resell best. I'm not sure that the diesels will work for either approach, especially if their emission control systems are having problems within their fleet life or by resale time. Plugged DPFs, problematic DEF systems, non-working EGR, and SCR failures causing error codes are all well known in the light-to-medium duty diesel world (even in the most-developed pickup V8's)... that's why there's a substantial market for removing and bypassing those systems. The current service history of this latest Ford diesel is in expensive personal vehicles, where high maintenance cost is routinely tolerated; I suppose we'll see how it plays in the working world.

It might be interesting to see the statistics for engine choices by fleet buyers among the current gasoline offerings for the F-150.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It might be interesting to see the statistics for engine choices by fleet buyers among the current gasoline offerings for the F-150.

And the diesel going forward for that matter. Fleet buyers will be able to select the diesel in the low trim levels like the XL, but not individual buyers. Seems to me they ought to offer the diesel at a lower trim level to individual buyers and the small guys as well. As a work truck a diesel seems a good fit, and not all companies buy a fleet at a time.

[DAVIDVALEGGE]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

I am not an Iowa fan although my daughter is a psychologist at the University Hospital. I have an Iowa State (Ames Iowa) degree. However my son was a presidential scholar at Ohio State and both my daughter and her husband have degrees from The Ohio State University. So three Ohio State Degrees in our house and several others from other Universities and colleges. I don’t really get too sports serious, but do enjoy the bowl games and following the local kids who occasionally make the big time. I can tell the ones that were raised right. They give back to the community, are good role models, and do not disgrace their families. I went to the same schools as Bill Fitch, legendary NBA Coach. Used to start his mom’s car in cold weather when I worked in the service station as a kid. You can kid me about sports, I realize it’s only a game, it’s not life like some would have you believe. Stay warm and put a cold weather kit on your Galaxy.
Iowa Dave

Bill Fitch was head coach at the University of N Dakota when I attended in middle 60's, Jimmie Rodgers was assistant coach and Phil Jackson was playing ball. All three became NBA coaches....

[Porsche Pilot]

I have been towing our 21 for over 1.5 years full time in a F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost. The motor is perfect for towing with excellent power reserve and unbelievable fuel economy. I average 27 mpg not towing with a full load in the bed and 15 towing. Keep in mind that our trailer and truck are fully loaded since we are full time travelers. With over 25,000 miles towing the trailer I love the combination!

[gocamp]

full load in the bed and 15 MPG towing. I agree Not bad at all, thanks for sharing

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Porsche Pilot

I have been towing our 21 for over 1.5 years full time in a F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost. The motor is perfect for towing with excellent power reserve and unbelievable fuel economy. I average 27 mpg not towing with a full load in the bed and 15 towing. Keep in mind that our trailer and truck are fully loaded since we are full time travelers. With over 25,000 miles towing the trailer I love the combination!

It's a combo I have no intention of changing either. We haven't managed 27 not towing, more like just over 26. We do average 15.2 mpg towing our 19.

[Danilushka]

I chose the 2017 3.5 Ecoboost Supercrew over the 2.7 to allow towing larger trailers while my wife and I are deciding what to buy. I am on the Escape forum as a prospective buyer to learn about the 5.0TA and appreciate hearing from experienced trailer owners. But we are considering other brands,some heavier and larger which is why the 3.5 over the 2.7. A couple of retired friends have Escapes and swear by them for their sturdy frame (kind of like an Airstream Lite).

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Danilushka

I chose the 2017 3.5 Ecoboost Supercrew over the 2.7 to allow towing larger trailers while my wife and I are deciding what to buy.

A fine choice. It gives you a bit more towing capacity, with little sacrifice in fuel economy.

Originally Posted by Danilushka

A couple of retired friends have Escapes and swear by them for their sturdy frame (kind of like an Airstream Lite).

It's really not about the frame. That's just welded tubular steel, similar to lots of other frames. The difference is that the molded fiberglass shell is the structure. Conventional trailers use walls with internal supports or studs made usually of wood or sometimes metal, very much like your house. Because of this type of construction, around here the conventional trailers are sometimes referred to as stick-built or "stickies" for short. A molded fiberglass trailer is another type entirely, and not really similar to an Airstream at all.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Danilushka

I chose the 2017 3.5 Ecoboost Supercrew over the 2.7 to allow towing larger trailers while my wife and I are deciding what to buy. I am on the Escape forum as a prospective buyer to learn about the 5.0TA and appreciate hearing from experienced trailer owners. But we are considering other brands,some heavier and larger which is why the 3.5 over the 2.7. A couple of retired friends have Escapes and swear by them for their sturdy frame (kind of like an Airstream Lite).

Same reason I had when I bought my 3.5. There was no 21 or 5.0TA at the time. Of course there was no 2.7 yet either.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Danilushka

I chose the 2017 3.5 Ecoboost Supercrew over the 2.7 to allow towing larger trailers while my wife and I are deciding what to buy. I am on the Escape forum as a prospective buyer to learn about the 5.0TA and appreciate hearing from experienced trailer owners. But we are considering other brands,some heavier and larger which is why the 3.5 over the 2.7. A couple of retired friends have Escapes and swear by them for their sturdy frame (kind of like an Airstream Lite).

For what it's worth, Reace tows his 5.0TA with a 3.5 EcoBoost. But he mostly brags on how easily it tows Tammy's horses over mountain passes to her next cutting horse competition.

[Danilushka]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

A molded fiberglass trailer is another type entirely, and not really similar to an AirStream at all.

I didn't get my point across, my fault: by similar to an AirStream, I meant a solid shell that doesn't develop cracks in seams fro road flex and temperature changes like conventional designs. And that "uni-shell" construction is in common with the AirSteam although the Airsteam is more like an aircraft fuselage and made of welded aluminum.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Danilushka

... Airsteam is more like an aircraft fuselage and made of welded aluminum.

Then I'm not sure why there are so many video tutorials on replacing rivets in Airstream shells.

[Danilushka]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Then I'm not sure why there are so many video tutorials on replacing rivets in overlapping segments of Airstream shells.

The frame is welded, the exterior shell is riveted: just like with aircraft as I said. I am trying to keep my posts short, but then I get questioned on details. A riveted shell doesn't flex much and doesn't develop the cracks that eventually leak in a few years. The Escape trailers appear to achieve the same end thorough a different design with different materials.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Danilushka

The frame is welded, the exterior shell is riveted: just like with aircraft as I said. I am trying to keep my posts short, but then I get questioned on details. A riveted shell doesn't flex much and doesn't develop the cracks that eventually leak in a few years. The Escape trailers appear to achieve the same end thorough a different design with different materials.

Please don't take offense if we question some terminology. I'm sure that it's nobody's intent to offend. We are just trying to be clear. I think one point of confusion is the use of the word "frame". The frame is what the trailer structure sits on, not the structure of the trailer itself. Most frames are welded steel or welded aluminum. It's what gets mounted on top of the frame that we are addressing. As a point of reference, here's a photo of an airstream frame - not the structure of the trailer body.
Using the analogy of an aircraft, it can get more confusing, because the entire superstructure of an aircraft fuselage is often called a frame, unlike with a trailer.

The trailer structure of an Airstream is a nice piece of work to be sure, but it is a structure, to which the skin or "shell" is riveted. With molded fiberglass, the fiberglass shell itself IS the structure. This is a significant difference, and the main reason why molded fiberglass trailers are much lighter.

But back to the original topic, I'd say you chose well when it comes to a tow vehicle, whatever you wind up towing.