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Old 02-12-2018, 02:04 PM   #1
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Tow capacity video

This link was posted by a senior member over on the other site (not sure if theres any policy preventing me from posting this here).

This is one of the best videos i've seen and breaks it down nicely. Believe it or not, I don't seem to have a huge amount of leeway towing a 2017 19 with a Tundra 5.7 4x4 when considering tongue weight, passengers and cargo (seemed crazy to me).

One of the reasons I've posted is because i have a friend ask me for advice on a trailer that's obviously over capacity for their vehicle. Gave them some resources, but they purchased anyway.

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Old 02-12-2018, 02:11 PM   #2
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:03 PM   #3
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Very informative and interesting video. Too bad it was brand
( Ford) specific..
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:45 PM   #4
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Very informative and interesting video. Too bad it was brand
( Ford) specific.
I thought it was well played out. A bit fast paced. Gave the listener some good ideas to ponder.

I was wondering why it mattered that it was Ford specific? They had to pick some vehicle to use.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:56 PM   #5
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The exccel spread sheet near the end , where he plugs in hitch weight, tongue weight and payload was an eye opener for me. I’m in the safe zone, but not by as much as I thought.
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:21 PM   #6
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Just finished downloading the spreadsheet, time to check this out myself!
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:23 PM   #7
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Interesting and well done video.

The fellow mentioned being stopped and weighed, and ticketed if overweight. Has this happened to anyone here, and if so, where?
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:38 PM   #8
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The fellow mentioned being stopped and weighed, and ticketed if overweight. Has this happened to anyone here, and if so, where?
Not to me, but I have heard (so this is still little better than rumour) of highway enforcement in British Columbia.

I'll note, though, that the only limits which could likely be enforced would be Gross Axle Weight Ratings and Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (for both tow vehicle and trailer axles); trailer weight limits set by tow vehicle manufacturers are not shown on the vehicle's information placard, and could not be enforced. Even Gross Combination Weight Ratings are not provided in any enforceable way, although the limits for non-commercial vehicles are set by regulation, and could be enforced (not an issue when towing any Escape). It wouldn't be surprising if some vehicles towing very large trailers, and some trucks carrying slide-in campers, exceed the axle limits and GVWR.
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:53 PM   #9
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Just finished downloading the spreadsheet, time to check this out myself!
Can you forward that spreadsheet to our library for others to use? Under files section...
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:34 PM   #10
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I like the pace of the video. Getting this sort of material by video is slower than printed text with illustrations anyway, and most "informative" videos are excruciatingly slow.

I think it was generally quite good, especially by the standards of YouTube videos. There are little things, of course:
  • a two-wheel-drive pickup is a "4X2", not a "2X4"
  • they should not use the term "carry" the way they do because it will confuse what they're talking about with payload for some people (the truck doesn't "carry" the trailer)
  • they shouldn't say "CAT Scale", but instead should use a more generic term which will mean something to ordinary people
  • it's GCWR (for Gross Combined Weight Rating), not GCVWR (for Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating); GCVWR makes sense, but it's just not the common term
  • the weight of towing equipment is not mentioned, but should have been included as part of the weight cutting into available payload
  • he consistently talks about the "truck", but everything in the video applies equally to other style of vehicles (although of course only a truck with an open bed or deck can tow a trailer - such as a fifth-wheel - that hitches over the truck axle).

I agree that the video only used Ford F-SuperDuty trucks as examples; the information would apply to any brand. He even says
Quote:
This is important: Do not use these numbers...
... while emphasising that he is showing the method, and you must get the numbers for your own specific vehicle (Ford or not).

I like his example of the fifth-wheel: that thing blows the payload capacity (and thus GVWR) of the "3/4 ton" pickup with just the pin weight, leaving nothing for people, cargo, or even a hitch to connect the truck and trailer! Escape 5.0TA owners should be able to identify with this challenge, even with their trailers which have one-third of the total and pin weights. Even his example of the same truck with a fifth-wheel only twice the weight of a 5.0TA (and only two people) is borderline for that F-250.

The spreadsheet is okay, if not as clear as it could be. If you have any idea how to use a spreadsheet there's no reason to download this one, as it has nothing of significance in it; like many other trailer owners, I have built similar sheets for my own use and to assist others, and shared at least one in one of these forums.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:47 PM   #11
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After watching the video I thought he was always using the manufacturer supplied number for maximum GVWR of the trailer. In other works he was not weighing the trailer on a CAT Scale, rather he was using the manufacturer supplied maximum weight, which may have little relevance. He then plugged this number into his spreadsheet calculation.

He weighed the truck but never weighted the trailer, if you travel light, as we all think we do, you would be using an overstated weight. If you travelled heavy and overloaded your trailer you would be too low! Not using an accurate number for the trailer weight could influence the results for Gross Combined Vehicle Weight.

Is this your impression?
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:11 PM   #12
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No , that was not my impression . I would believe most people underestimate their actual towing weight and that his calculations are far closer to reality .
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:03 AM   #13
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Anyone notice the 'solution' to your towing problems: The Automated Safety Hitch | Trailer Hitch | Gooseneck Horse Trailers | 5th Wheel RVs | Flatbed Goosenecks | Fifth Wheel . As if towing one trailer wasn't bad enough ...
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:58 AM   #14
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Anyone notice the 'solution' to your towing problems: The Automated Safety Hitch | Trailer Hitch | Gooseneck Horse Trailers | 5th Wheel RVs | Flatbed Goosenecks | Fifth Wheel . As if towing one trailer wasn't bad enough ...
hah! I watched a big semi tractor use a big version of that to pull a lowboy trailer that we loaded with an old steam locomotive that used to be behind the Carousel in Cannery Row. he called it a 'jeep'. I helped a crew pull an old locomotive out of Cannery Row, they hauled it up to Sunol to the Niles Canyon RR who had the sister engine of that old Heisler. Monterey wanted it gone because rumor said the boiler was full of asbestos.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:36 PM   #15
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Can you forward that spreadsheet to our library for others to use? Under files section...
The File Library doesn't want to take a file extension ending in .xlsx. The spreadsheet is available to anyone who wants to download it directly, at "keepyourdaydream.com/payload".
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by fudge_brownie View Post
After watching the video I thought he was always using the manufacturer supplied number for maximum GVWR of the trailer. In other works he was not weighing the trailer on a CAT Scale, rather he was using the manufacturer supplied maximum weight, which may have little relevance. He then plugged this number into his spreadsheet calculation.

He weighed the truck but never weighted the trailer...

Is this your impression?
Not quite. He shows the UVW and GVWR of the trailer in the spreadsheet, but mentions in the video the actual GVW of 9200 pounds (as in 'this F-250 was overloaded with our 9200 pound trailer', or something like that'), so he certainly weighed it. In the comments attached to either the YouTube video or the web page with the spreadsheet, he describes multiple visits to a scale.

A problem is that he made this spreadsheet and video to discuss truck payload, not GCWR, so the actual trailer tongue weight is the important part, which drives his truck over GVWR and exceeding payload. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that the 1400 pounds is actual because it's not a trailer rating, and because it is a plausible 15% of the 9200 pound GVW. Unfortunately, he glosses over the issue of total combination weight. Yes, it does appear that he is calculating GCW with the trailer's GVWR rather than the trailer's actual GVW, which would make any conclusion about exceeding GCWR invalid.

This is another reason to do your own spreadsheet: you can do better, in both accuracy in clarity. At the very least, put the actual GVW (loaded weight) of the trailer in the sheet in addition to the UVW and GVWR and use the GVW in the GCW calculation.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:07 PM   #17
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"Automated Safety Hitch" (sidetrack)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADreamin View Post
Anyone notice the 'solution' to your towing problems: The Automated Safety Hitch | Trailer Hitch | Gooseneck Horse Trailers | 5th Wheel RVs | Flatbed Goosenecks | Fifth Wheel . As if towing one trailer wasn't bad enough ...
Yes, this piece of junk drives me nuts, although it's not the worst thing billed as a "solution" to bad towing rigs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
hah! I watched a big semi tractor use a big version of that to pull a lowboy trailer that we loaded with an old steam locomotive that used to be behind the Carousel in Cannery Row. he called it a 'jeep'..
There are things which look something like the thing linked above which are normally called converter dollies in commercial service, because the convers a semi-trailer to a full trailer. A "jeep" is about the same thing, but a little different because it has the fifth-wheel hitch about midway between the pin (which is in the truck's fifth-wheel) and the axle, so it spreads the heavy trailer's pin weight between the truck and an extra set of axles... which is the purpose of the jeep.

From British Columbia's Commercial Transport regulations:
Quote:
"jeep" means a semi-trailer that is designed to be attached between a truck tractor and another semi-trailer, so as to distribute the load of the other semi-trailer between the axles of the jeep and axles of the truck tractor
The thing in the link is different. It is not towed with a simple ball or fifth-wheel hitch: instead, it is linked and strapped and maybe duct taped to the truck so it can't pivot like a trailer, but instead is an extension of the truck. That would mean that the truck could not turn properly, so it has castered (self-steering) wheels. That in turn means it can't backup without problems, so it has a lockout for the castering so it fights the truck when backing up, but at least doesn't pivot the tires to a locked-the-wrong-way position. It's a ton (almost literally, although the manufacturer/seller doesn't mention the weight) and ten thousand dollars of junk using up your towing capacity to avoid overloading the rear axle of an inadequate tow vehicle.

A normal commercial towing device which is similar is a C-train converter dolly, but that dolly puts zero vertical load on the towing vehicle (which is a semi-trailer, not the truck). The intended function of this thing (the "Automated Safety Hitch") is as a tag axle, tacked on the back of the truck via the hitch receiver mounts and riding on a trailer suspension rather than properly supporting the frame and using a suspension compatible with the drive axle.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:18 AM   #18
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I am not sure if fuel in the vehicle is also in the calculation...we all know that can add as well as what Brian said about the plug in hitch at 80 plus lbs. You may want to do the calculations before you buy a heavy pickup bed mat and canopy.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:36 AM   #19
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I am not sure if fuel in the vehicle is also in the calculation...we all know that can add as well as what Brian said about the plug in hitch at 80 plus lbs. You may want to do the calculations before you buy a heavy pickup bed mat and canopy.
And all the other stuff that gets added, sometimes with little thought: beefier bumpers/winches, running boards, truck vaults, etc
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:51 AM   #20
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gas oil and coolant are generally included in the curb weight
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