National Park Fees going up?

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I have to agree with that. 70 mil won't put much of a dent in the shortfall. Long term, the answer is people and their elected officials who believe National Parks are a national treasure, and who fund them as such.

Over the past 35 years there have been numerous initiatives proposed by organizations with outdoor activities as a cornerstone of their goals and values. From the National Recreation and Parks Association to the NFL and on to state and federal organizations throughout the USA. The social scientists widely agree on play, fresh air and all the things campers enjoy. as paramount for a healthy society. The priorities in our country are badly skewed. And now would the Choir open their hymnals to page 94. We will sing all verses from Smokey the Bear.
Iowa Dave

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Over the past 35 years there have been numerous initiatives proposed by organizations with outdoor activities as a cornerstone of their goals and values. From the National Recreation and Parks Association to the NFL and on to state and federal organizations throughout the USA. The social scientists widely agree on play, fresh air and all the things campers enjoy. as paramount for a healthy society. The priorities in our country are badly skewed. And now would the Choir open their hymnals to page 94. We will sing all verses from Smokey the Bear.
Iowa Dave

Amen Reverend.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I have to agree with that. 70 mil won't put much of a dent in the shortfall overall. But, since 80 percent of the additional fees collected would be designated for that particular park, it will make some difference for that park.

Long term, the answer is people and their elected officials who believe National Parks are a national treasure, and who fund them as such.

Yes, 80% of the money would go to the particular parks with the high traffic that collect the higher fees, not distributed across the park system. Only 20% of that would be distributed to other parks. Most parks have free entrance. The high traffic ones are having a difficult time keeping up.

[Donna D.]

My brief trip to the Tetons this year was eye opening. IF this particular park is any indication of other parks, they're literally being overrun by the shear volumes of people and dogs. In Gros Vente it seemed if a camper had one dog they had three. While most people were respectful of the flora, others just tramped through the "brush" rather than staying on established paths. I found it sad and if these parks aren't maintained or given a rest, 20 years from now they won't be recognizable as "treasures."

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

My brief trip to the Tetons this year was eye opening. IF this particular park is any indication of other parks, they're literally being overrun by the shear volumes of people and dogs. In Gros Vente it seemed if a camper had one dog they had three. While most people were respectful of the flora, others just tramped through the "brush" rather than staying on established paths. I found it sad and if these parks aren't maintained or given a rest, 20 years from now they won't be recognizable as "treasures."

Some of the public parks in my area are looking at limiting dogs / cats. IE Only one dog / cat per campsite The other thing being considered is a $5 or $10 fee per day per campsite for each cat or dog.
Even though we own a dog , I would not object to a pet fee
Why should other campers pay a higher camping fee in order to cover the cost of cleaning up after other people's pets..

I understand your dog /cat is perfect and you always clean up behind your pet but not everyone is that considerate.

[Iowa Dave]

Two years ago I paid a $2 pet fee at a US Forest Service campground in the Black Hills. Last year, there was no fee at another USFS camp managed by the same concessionaire about 35 miles from the fee campground. A couple bucks won’t break anybody up. Michigan state parks and Indiana state parks along with a number of Corps campgrounds provide Mutt Mitts, or other bags and a place to deposit them. I had oversight for two dog parks for several years. The dogs are not a problem but some of those owners “Oh Boy.”
Iowa Dave

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

My brief trip to the Tetons this year was eye opening. IF this particular park is any indication of other parks, they're literally being overrun by the shear volumes of people and dogs. In Gros Vente it seemed if a camper had one dog they had three. While most people were respectful of the flora, others just tramped through the "brush" rather than staying on established paths. I found it sad and if these parks aren't maintained or given a rest, 20 years from now they won't be recognizable as "treasures."

Having been "attacked" by the same 3 Dauchsunds for the second time on my morning walk for coffee (at the BLM Long Term Visitor Area where there is a leash law) I have to agree that there are some owners that have no respect for others (the last time the owners suggested that I move somewhere else if I didn't like it).

While most dog owners are great, there are always a few that make it difficult for the good ones.

[Oldtimer]

That why when I walk I keep my trusty water gun filled with onion water one squirt n away they run

[Iowa Dave]

If you attend the rally at Osoyoos you will observe many Escape campers walking their dogs on the roads though the campground. We were in site C68 two years ago. The area next to this site is a large grassy area with a couple of trees. It is right on the tip of the loop and is an ultra popular place for the dogs to stop. We did not have any problems with people failing to clean up after their dog adjacent to our site. Now when we discuss that trip we just reference it as “the year we stayed on poo corner”. I petted about 100 dogs that year as most folks stopped to let their dog meet Jake. I only got bit once and that rascal was wagging his tail when he bit me. In the dogs defense, the owner did tel me he would bite. And he didn’t the first time I petted him but the second time he decided he did not like me. Jake’s taking it easy this afternoon, he ran a squirrel this morning.
Iowa Dave

[advenas]

As for the National Park fee increase....I'm with Edward Abbey...block off all the roads and make people walk or bicycle in to camp and/or view the spectacular sights. For those that can't get around so well, buses would be fine like in Zion.

As for dogs, yes I think charging for them is fine. The more the better. I have a dog, I pick up after him and he's always on a leash. My dog has been attacked on two separate occasions by off-leash dogs. And of course since he's a Pitbull they blamed me for him protecting himself while the other dog chewed on him. God save the idiot who lets their dog off leash and can't or won't control it. I'm tired of it and get pretty nasty if there's a problem. Consequently I camp far, far away from anybody just to minimize the risk of a problem.

[Fox hunt]

That's why i love camping on Washington beaches my dogs can run off leash and get tired. In the parks of course they have to stay on leash. But it is really hard to tire a young athletic dog out on a leash so i love it when we have a nice legal off leash area.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

My brief trip to the Tetons this year was eye opening. IF this particular park is any indication of other parks, they're literally being overrun by the shear volumes of people and dogs. In Gros Vente it seemed if a camper had one dog they had three. While most people were respectful of the flora, others just tramped through the "brush" rather than staying on established paths. I found it sad and if these parks aren't maintained or given a rest, 20 years from now they won't be recognizable as "treasures."

I think this ball is rolling already and is close to the bottom of the hill. Approximately 25 years ago, we took a family camping trip to the Great Smoky NP. In Cade’s Cove, the original settler’s log cabins were all in pristine shape given their age. A few years ago, my wife and I returned as empty nesters. The previously untouched cabins were marred with initials carved into the walls or written with magic markers. And it wasn’t a few isolated scriblings; defacement was everywhere. It was really sad to see that so many people have no respect for these historic dwellings/national treasures. But it did bring to mind one of my mother’s frequently quoted expressions: “Fool’s names and fool’s faces are often seen in public places.”

[advenas]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I think this ball is rolling already and is close to the bottom of the hill. Approximately 25 years ago, we took a family camping trip to the Great Smoky NP. In Cade’s Cove, the original settler’s log cabins were all in pristine shape given their age. A few years ago, my wife and I returned as empty nesters. The previously untouched cabins were marred with initials carved into the walls or written with magic markers. And it wasn’t a few isolated scriblings; defacement was everywhere. It was really sad to see that so many people have no respect for these historic dwellings/national treasures. But it did bring to mind one of my mother’s frequently quoted expressions: “Fool’s names and fool’s faces are often seen in public places.”

This is so true on many levels. I found a nice Anasazi ruins back in 2005 on my first trip to Utah. Still had corn cobs and pot shards in it. Wonderful place. Took lots of pictures and left things as they were. By 2010 it was picked clean and beat up because someone posted a map on the internet on how to get there. I've never been one to share where I camp or the places I've hiked to for this very reason. The lack of respect for historic and native sites and the destruction very sad.

[currinh]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Some of the public parks in my area are looking at limiting dogs / cats. IE Only one dog / cat per campsite The other thing being considered is a $5 or $10 fee per day per campsite for each cat or dog.
Even though we own a dog , I would not object to a pet fee
Why should other campers pay a higher camping fee in order to cover the cost of cleaning up after other people's pets..

I understand your dog /cat is perfect and you always clean up behind your pet but not everyone is that considerate.

Yes! I think there should be a charge and limit on children. $10 for a child and only one per site. Fair is fair. Why should I pay a higher camping fee in order to cover the cost of cleaning up after other peoples children...

I understand your children are prefect and you always control them, but not many parents are that considerate.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by currinh

Yes! I think there should be a charge and limit on children. $10 for a child and only one per site. Fair is fair. Why should I pay a higher camping fee in order to cover the cost of cleaning up after other peoples children...

I understand your children are prefect and you always control them, but not many parents are that considerate.

I take it you are a proponent of the barrel method of raising children.
"When a child turns 12, he should be kept in a barrel and fed through the bung hole, until he reaches 16 ... at which time you plug the bung hole."-Mark Twain

[Fox hunt]

yes sometimes it seems dogs are often excluded from trails beaches etc that is what i love to do camp with my dogs- though i understand the need to keep dogs out of sensitive wildlife areas. I don't like camping at some camp areas because of all the children riding motorized skate boards up and down the road but families have a right to have a good time too so i remain friendly and hold my tongue. Anytime you have people in tight quarters their will be issues and people will knowingly or unknowingly do things that are irritating. I just try to camp in areas that i feel welcome and are a bit less crowded.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by currinh

Yes! I think there should be a charge and limit on children. $10 for a child and only one per site. Fair is fair. Why should I pay a higher camping fee in order to cover the cost of cleaning up after other peoples children...

I understand your children are prefect and you always control them, but not many parents are that considerate.

I have 5 children and 11 grandchildren so I understand how kids can get out of hand . To be honest none of my children or grandchildren are perfect and for that matter neither is Axzel , our chocolate lab . Thank God !! I do keep our dog on a leash,
but the grandkids kind of wander around as they please.
If we happen to run into each other while camping I will try and keep the grandkids caged up , no promises but I will try .

[currinh]

Originally Posted by wetzk

I take it you are a proponent of the barrel method of raising children.
"When a child turns 12, he should be kept in a barrel and fed through the bung hole, until he reaches 16 ... at which time you plug the bung hole."-Mark Twain

Of course not. I'd never raise a dog that way.

[currinh]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I have 5 children and 11 grandchildren so I understand how kids can get out of hand . To be honest none of my children or grandchildren are perfect and for that matter neither is Axzel , our chocolate lab . Thank God !! I do keep our dog on a leash,
but the grandkids kind of wander around as they please.
If we happen to run into each other while camping I will try and keep the grandkids caged up , no promises but I will try .

Thanks. We'll keep the dogs on leash and try to keep them quiet. I hope you can do the same with the children! But if they get loose and wander through our camp we'll cage them up for you.

Only kidding, we'll be responsible and do our best to not let our dogs bother you and other campers. I'm sure you are also responsible. If we do meet up I'll buy you a beer. I hope that all campers will do the same, though I'm often disappointed.

It does bother me how little access we have to National Parks with the dogs, no matter what they charge.

[Iowa Dave]

The leash comments made me remember when my son was about three. He was a handful and could disappear faster than Houdini. I went to Pennys mail order and got a leash. Took him to the Boat show in Cedar Falls. Wasn’t long before I got a tongue lashing from some old gal about being cruel to children. About ten minutes later another lady stopped me and asked where I got the leash as she’d been looking for one. Takes all kinds. Now they camouflage the leash by putting a D ring on the back of “book bags”. Adrian and Beth and Rita and I camped next to about 5 very active boys at St Malo. Their dad came over to apologize for their enthusiasm. We assured him that we had no problem with them. Having raised boys and having camped with 15 or 20 Boy Scouts will adjust your perspective.
Iowa Dave