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Old 12-02-2014, 03:59 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The layout which Abby linked to (21' electrical plan) shows only one in the kitchen counter area, but it might not be current or complete... and I didn't survey outlets when I looked inside any of the Escape display models. Where's the second outlet, and is it an unlisted option?
(I'm not counting the ones in the cabinetry on the other side of the trailer, as it is obviously not practical to plug a countertop appliance into them.)
There is a bit of assumption on my part with the 21. I know in the 19, there is one at each end of the kitchen, only one of which has been used a couple times for our wee kettle. The rare times with do have connection to the grid, we use the kettle outside mostly, and a wee cube heater under the dinette (though this hasn't been used in a few years).
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:59 PM   #42
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There is a bit of assumption on my part with the 21. I know in the 19, there is one at each end of the kitchen, only one of which has been used a couple times for our wee kettle.
Now this is making more sense One end of the kitchen counter in the standard 19' layout is beside the permanent bed, where one might want an outlet. I think the equivalent in the 21' is the one shown in the plan at the very back of the trailer, for use in the dinette area... not so useful for the kitchen.

The "wee" kettle raises an interesting point: kettles can draw up to 1500 watts, but a small kettle might take only one-third of that power, and so might combine well with other appliances (for those who use more than one). We would rather avoid open propane flames (when shore power is available) and so are trying out an induction cooker, which is essentially a nicer and higher-tech version of the traditional basic hot plate - that's a 1400 watt appliance so it essentially needs its own 15-amp circuit. Details of "size" (power draw) matter.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:05 PM   #43
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I've carried around an induction plate for 2 years, it is still in the box, I just removed it from the trailer.Never opened it. It is much simpler to use the stove and you can still use you kettle. The use of propane is minimal, whether hooked up or not. There is one outlet on the face in the 21' and another at the dinette as well as the outside one. Also one by the nightstand by the bed, any of these are available and I doubt they are all on the same circuit.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:28 PM   #44
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I've carried around an induction plate for 2 years, it is still in the box, I just removed it from the trailer.Never opened it. It is much simpler to use the stove and you can still use you kettle. The use of propane is minimal, whether hooked up or not.
Jim, I appreciate the sharing of experience (although I apparently have much more experience with an induction cooker, since we are actually using ours), but you have misunderstood the propane issue. I didn't explain in much detail (since I didn't think it was relevant), but I did say "We would rather avoid open propane flames."

Propane consumption is not the concern. We have a pet bird, and any open flame in the RV is an air quality concern (yes, I know, the stove is used with ventilation). There are also safety concerns. Ease of use is only a minor consideration.

There's nothing much simpler than plugging in a box and putting a pot on it, without even having to light a flame in it. The cooker also has power control by temperature (if desired), automatically shuts off if the pot is removed, and doesn't get dangerously hot (the pot heats, not the cooker). I'm not trying to sell anyone on induction cookers - my guess is that most people don't want one - just correcting the mistaken impression that we are incapable of using a propane stove or worried about running out of propane by using the stove

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
There is one outlet on the face in the 21' and another at the dinette as well as the outside one. Also one by the nightstand by the bed, any of these are available and I doubt they are all on the same circuit.
The plan shows the dinette outlet by the rear window, which is not generally useful for cooking (although some people find it convenient to run a toaster or kettle at the table, for which this would be great). Is your dinette outlet actually on the end of the kitchen?

The one by the bed could be the useful second kitchen outlet, if thinking of that cabinet as part of the kitchen rather than as a nightstand. In the floorplan, I was misreading it as a full-height cabinet, not as a counter. This outlet is probably on a different circuit from the main counter outlet just because it would likely be easier to wire that way (each side of the trailer getting an outlet circuit), but I wouldn't want to assume that. Anyone have a version of the electrical plan which identifies which circuit each outlet is on?
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:37 PM   #45
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Given that our trailers have less square footage than a typical master bedroom or a decent sized kitchen, it is likely that the various manufactures do not see a need for multiple outlets for utility circuits...
Most people probably do not use the wide array of kitchen appliances when camping as they do at home, and due to counter size in a small camper, not at the same time.
A decently sized home kitchen and a small travel trailer are certainly different. The home kitchen would have three or more countertop duplex outlets on at least two 20-amp circuits or four 15-amp circuits, and often more, in addition to dedicated circuits for stoves, ovens, ranges, refrigerators, dishwashers, and microwave ovens. Some of us would like just two countertop 15-amp circuits in a trailer; there is certainly the countertop space for two appliances, particularly since those two are probably being used instead of the propane stove (such as an electric kettle and toaster or hotplate), and thus the stove has a cover over it. No, personally I wouldn't plan on a dishwasher in an Escape.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:50 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The "wee" kettle raises an interesting point: kettles can draw up to 1500 watts, but a small kettle might take only one-third of that power, and so might combine well with other appliances (for those who use more than one).
Too be honest, I am not sure what it draws. I think it does 1 litre of water, though we do push the volume at times. It is a bit quicker than the stove, especially the inside one.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:15 PM   #47
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Why is traveling with a bird an air quality issue? Not like the inside of a trailer is a coal mine with methane concerns. My sister (a veterinarian) is also a trailer owner and had no idea when I asked.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:27 PM   #48
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Why is traveling with a bird an air quality issue? Not like the inside of a trailer is a coal mine with methane concerns. My sister (a veterinarian) is also a trailer owner and had no idea when I asked.
Stoves don't always run very cleanly, so there is a bit of unburned fuel (like the methane), but particulates and carbon monoxide are probably bigger concerns. It might not really be a problem, but birds are more vulnerable to air quality problems than mammals, plus they tend to not show problems until they die, so many owners are borderline paranoid about their health. Sometimes it's easier to just not run the risk... and there is a reason that canaries were used as air quality detectors in coal mines - they really did die before people noticed the problem.
No offense to your sister, Charlie, but vets handle an array of species (must be a challenge) and birds are a specialty that most won't touch... so birds might just be outside her normal range of practice. Or she has a different assessment. Either way, it isn't just about trailers - bird owners consider similar issues in their regular homes as well.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:50 PM   #49
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So now we know, Brian,B-P stands for a Bird Person
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:43 PM   #50
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... No, personally I wouldn't plan on a dishwasher in an Escape.
If Escape offered a combination dishwasher and microwave, I would be the first to sign up, and make my life as chief dishwasher a bit easier.



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