Escape 19 - no bathroom

[sturski]

The order is in and deposit is taken, looks like we'll be getting a Christmas egg with a delivery date of Dec 23. My wife and I were avid backpackers, until back surgery made that impossible. We moved to car camping until rocks and roots became increasingly uncomfortable, then a T@B. We camp with 2 large dogs, a Golden and a Newf, the T@B is more than a bit tight.

We're choosing an Escape 19 because the weight and size seem appropriate. We live in CO at altitude and drive a Tacoma with a 6500# tow limit. The 17a looks appealing; but the 19 looks doable, 2 extra feet and a queen sized mattress is very appealing. Ours will be built with cabinets and an opening window, instead of the bathroom. My wife is a bit claustrophobic in the T@B, more windows and more open are good. Looking for opinions and critique of options:

3 burner stove with oven - I'm told that brownies are worth it
6.7 ft² refrigerator - if it comes down to produce or beer, I'm going to lose
Opening window over sink - more light, more air
Dual 6v batteries, 160w solar, all LED lights - I own an 1800w generator, I'd like to leave it at home
Insulation and thermal windows - It drops to 20° at night, sometimes, in the summer
Insulation under trailer - same
U shaped dinette - looks more comfortable and permanent.
Stereo & TV wall mount - watching a movie beats strangling each other on rainy evenings
Storage box - extra storage is good, seems to double as a rock guard
Anderson Hitch
Exterior shower

My wife and I are both heat intolerant. If we need A/C at night, we are camped at the wrong place and will leave. Most of our camping is boondocking with the occasional National Park visit. We've never plugged in the T@B anywhere other than home. I'd like to use solar for the furnace, lights, and a movie some evenings. I'll use propane everywhere I can. I need to do some homework on solar sizing; but would prefer factory installed overkill.
I see options for drawers and shelves, where would these go?
While it drops to 20° at night, it doesn't stay there very long. Garden hoses don't freeze and I've never had a problem with the T@B. I'm thinking that the outdoor shower should be fine.
Where is the default TV mount location? Something I ought to consider reinforcing or moving?

Does anyone have experience with snow loading on the roof? Covered storage isn't an option.

What did I miss?

[Viajante]

Since you are omitting the bathroom you might omit a hot water heater, too. When boondocking it is a waste to heat up 6 gals of water for a one gal shower. A pan of water on the stove is fine. There is debate on the value of an outside shower. I have one, I've used it, I wouldn't miss it. For an outside shower I'd look at an enclosure under the awning with a pot of hot water. Good luck with your design, you'll have room to be creative.

[gbaglo]

We use the outside shower all the time, mostly to wash hair. But, we mostly camp where people wouldn't object ( for whatever reason they can think of ).

[dave macrae]

We like the outside shower, use it to rinse off the dog, rinse feet after the beach, washed hair and rinsed off bug spray and sunscreen. didn't have one on our previous trailer and really missed it.

[escape artist]

Hi: sturski... My take on the elimination of the bathroom is...I won't leave home without one!!! I'm old enough to know the value of towing your own. We've never used either shower... but in the middle of the night, or nowhere... the toilet is a must.
The resale value of such a limited trailer is a big?
The next buyer can add A/C but a bathroom!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[daveandsandyclink]

The great thing about having you Escape built to order is the fact that you get to make many of the choices. Since you are making a large leap in size and comfort, I would give a lot of thought about getting the basic bathroom and hot water heater. As you age, going to the pit toilet in the middle of a cold, wet night will make you wish you had one. Who knows...should you want to sell the 19' to get the newest 25' Escape with the slide out, your resale will be better with a bathroom and hot water heater.
Your choice.

[MyronL]

Double Ditto on bringing along your own toilet. Make that a triple ditto for them midnight necessaries. Sometimes the bushes are just tooo far to go.

[Dave Walter]

For many people, "warranty" and "re-sale" value seem to be huge drivers in their decision on how to use what they buy or what options to include in a purchase. For myself, I plan on the majority of my use of the product continuing into the years after the warranty has expired, so warranty is a minimal consideration. Relative to features, I put more consideration into what I want now and what I think I may want in the future, and worry less about some hypothetical future sale value. Most likely, that future sale will be what my Escape brings in at an estate sale, and it will not really matter to me any more how many $ that may be. My suggestion is to include whatever features and options that you want and don't worry about future value.

[cpaharley2008]

As you point out in your first paragraph, health reasons necessitated the move from backpacking to Escaping. We can not predict the future, but the odds are health reasons could make the need for a bathroom necessary. Something to think about, from someone familiar with actuarial science.

[tractors1]

I vote with get what you want. Let the estate deal with the leftovers. I recently saw an article about a guy buried in a huge plexiglass coffin with him sitting on his Harley motorcycle. An Escape would need a MUCH larger hole............

[Donna D.]

You can never miss what you've never had.

My Scamp has a toilet and shower. I will never own a trailer without. Because boy, would I miss it! Being a gal, getting dressed in the middle of the night to go look for a bush.. in the rain... is definitely NOT appealing. Especially as I get older.

But, this is your Escape. You know what you want and I say "go for it"!

[Zardoz]

Have been watching this thread with interest. Here is the "given" as I see it: no bathroom means no resale; fine. But what do you gain in exchange? More drawers for more clothes you don't need? If you're going to die with it, go for it. But I wonder how many have been produced without a bath?

[gbaglo]

All I know is "when you gotta go, you gotta go".
And when you get older, and we all do, you "gotta go more often", and often in the middle of the night.

[dbailey]

The wife mandated we would have a bathroom. But I'm an odd one in this respect -- I actually like going for a short walk in the middle of the night. Admittedly it's rather less pleasant in the rain, but that's what gortex is for...

[tractors1]

Where does one buy Gore-Tex PJs

Charlie Y

[Zardoz]

Is Gor-Tex TP reuseable?

[tractors1]

I'm NOT going there without room service................

[daveandsandyclink]

Hi Stan,
Up until a few years ago, I lived down the the road from you in Mead, CO. I think I understand your style of camping. I too hung out in national forests and national forest campgrounds including RMNP and upgraded to a Casita eventually. I had no real need for AC or the outdoor shower. The "season" is short with early and late snows like the one you just had. You do understand that not all thermo windows open but probably enough to keep you comfortable at 8000 feet in the summer. No AC will limit you to certain regions at certain seasons of the US. You are probably not going to save much weight or expense eliminating the bathroom. I learned quickly that keeping the "land lady" dry, comfortable, and fairly safe from preditors + having her own bathroom allowed me to enjoy the high altitude wilderness.
About resale...some members here are on their second or third Escape trailer in six years or less plus other brands or types along the way. I am on my second trailer in 10 years. Few own just one till the grave.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

About resale...some members here are on their second or third Escape trailer in six years or less plus other brands or types along the way. I am on my second trailer in 10 years. Few own just one till the grave.

Well stated. I survived Illinois winters living in a 1958 Chevy panel truck, but I much prefer having a bathroom. Then there is the golden rule of "Happy wife, happy life."

Charlie Y

[MyronL]

The other golden rule is, Better to have and not need than to need and not have.