broken frame and sorta peeved!

[thoer]

Originally Posted by reace

I am not sure where that information came from but we have never used T1 steel for the chassis. I am not sure that tubing is even available in T1.

The chassis are all manufactured using certified structural steel and there is nothing special regarding welding to it.

Reace

Thanks Reace!

[Ron in BC]

So the T1 rumor turned out to be a factoid. Just looked up the definition the other day; something repeated so often that it is accepted as fact.

Good reason to go to the source for facts.

Thanks for clarifying that, I haven't welded anything on my frame but it's good to know if I want to add something.

Ron

[Iowa Dave]

And that is why it only took my welder a cursory look and tap and he knew what he was welding to when he started. Yes, some people are that good. And they get that good by being serious, conscientious and educated.
Iowa Dave

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by AllanEdie

Is that an extra plate welded on to reinforce the inside of the A-frame joint?

I only see a reinforcing plate on the inside of the joint. This is the original design of the mitred joint and has served apparently without any problems on all of the trailers with 4" tall frames.

Originally Posted by AllanEdie

If so, any weakness introduced by the bolt holes should be covered.

The reinforcing plates (on the inside of all mitred joints, plus retrofitted on the outside of the joint to 3" frames) are for the joint. The cracks in Steve's (and Richard's) trailers are further back, beyond these plates... and only in 3" frames, unlike the 4" frame of the 21'.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by reace

I am not sure where that information came from but we have never used T1 steel for the chassis. I am not sure that tubing is even available in T1.

The chassis are all manufactured using certified structural steel and there is nothing special regarding welding to it.

Reace

It came from earlier discussion of the earlier frame failure provided by a forum member. It was not corrected, and it made sense... we were and still are seeing what appear to be brittle failures of the frame tubing.

Thanks for the correction, Reace.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Just because it hasnt been reported on this forum doesnt mean others havent had problems. Heard of a 19 owner in Texas who had the A-frame separate under tow and only the chains kept it attached.

Yeah, not every owner comes to this forum. And if they do, not all the time. Which needs to be remembered more often.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I thought I'd better take a look at my 21' for any frame problems after following this thread.

Most of the frame looks good with support tabs welded on the frame rail sides with one glaring exception. The front stabilizers are bolted to the frame using holes drilled into the bottom of the frame rail.

This weakens the frame right at a stress point and I will be keeping an eye on it for any cracking.

That is not a bolt, but is a self tapping metal screw. The hole it creates is no where near the size of the larger thru the frame bolts, in fact it only goes thru one side of the frame. If you remove it you will see the difference.

[Brian B-P]

Steve (flatpick) - Please check your PM inbox; I sent you a couple of PMs with additional information (because you don't have e-mail available).

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

That is not a bolt, but is a self tapping metal screw. The hole it creates is no where near the size of the larger thru the frame bolts, in fact it only goes thru one side of the frame. If you remove it you will see the difference.

Yep, knew it was a self tapping screw but it's still in a bad place to make a penetration. A tab welded to the side of the frame member would have been better - also, it would have moved the jack connection out a little. I'm not getting younger and that bendover to find the jack socket is getting harder each day.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Most of the frame looks good with support tabs welded on the frame rail sides with one glaring exception. The front stabilizers are bolted to the frame using holes drilled into the bottom of the frame rail. This weakens the frame right at a stress point and I will be keeping an eye on it for any cracking.

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

A tab welded to the side of the frame member would have been better - also, it would have moved the jack connection out a little. I'm not getting younger and that bendover to find the jack socket is getting harder each day.

Tom: ETI is installing the jacks as BAL instructs with it aligned right under the main frame member. Option for self-tapping screws or welding. I know this isn’t supposed to be done, but I see there being a potential to bend a tab if the jacks were installed this way and are cranked hard to the point that the jack is taking significant weight. They are rated for 4,000-5,000#...and you know how people are. On the bright side you can easily remove one if you have a problem. Those of us with weld on will have a much harder time.

Also just brainstorming but with regards to reaching the jack socket maybe it is possible to weld on extension pieces of 3/4” Hex bar to the existing hex piece at the length you want?
http://www.grainger.com/product/GRAI...ex-Stock-4YNG4

Or get real fancy and add the BAL 12V PowerPak units. Even if you use them manually it does move the socket out a few inches but it may be harder to raise/lower if you are fighting the gearing. But if you had them why would you do it manually?!
http://norcoind.com/bal/downloads/af...og/Add-Ons.pdf

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Tom: ETI is installing the jacks as BAL instructs with it aligned right under the main frame member. Option for self-tapping screws or welding. I know this isn’t supposed to be done, but I see there being a potential to bend a tab if the jacks were installed this way and are cranked hard to the point that the jack is taking significant weight. They are rated for 4,000-5,000#...and you know how people are. On the bright side you can easily remove one if you have a problem. Those of us with weld on will have a much harder time.

Also just brainstorming but with regards to reaching the jack socket maybe it is possible to weld on extension pieces of 3/4” Hex bar to the existing hex piece at the length you want?
http://www.grainger.com/product/GRAI...ex-Stock-4YNG4

Or get real fancy and add the BAL 12V PowerPak units. Even if you use them manually it does move the socket out a few inches but it may be harder to raise/lower if you are fighting the gearing. But if you had them why would you do it manually?!
http://norcoind.com/bal/downloads/af...og/Add-Ons.pdf

Thanks, I didn't know that was the recommended way to install the jacks. I was trying to come up with ways to eliminate holes in the frame rail.

Steve's broken frame is something I never expected to see and has me second guessing other scenarios that might happen. The likelihood is small that this will happen to a 21 but I will probably keep looking under my trailer for a while anyway. I'm really interested in what Rease comes up with as a resolution.

Oh, I already use a battery power drill with a socket and extension to run up/down the Bal stabilizers. Losing a few pounds would probably help on the bending over to line up the socket.

[Oldtimer]

Let us old geezers know how u loose those few pounds so we can too my issue is that I have a serious illness it’s called seefoodandeatit

[cpaharley2008]

Yes, a lot of people I know are on the same seefood diet.....

[reace]

Originally Posted by reace

I am not sure where that information came from but we have never used T1 steel for the chassis. I am not sure that tubing is even available in T1.

The chassis are all manufactured using certified structural steel and there is nothing special regarding welding to it.

Reace

I stand corrected...the information on the website states that the frames were manufactured with T1 steel. I have corrected this information and apologize for the misunderstanding.

Reace

[thoer]

Reace, does that apply to all versions and all models, or just the 19 version being discussed here?

[flatpick]

P4071465.jpg
P4071466.jpg
P4071470.jpg

Hurray, we got our trailer all healed up! We had to take it 25 miles back to Barstow CA from Newberry Springs, all while limping along at 35mph with a cracked, separated frame. No telling how long we drove that way before we discovered it.
The welding shop, Sentry Welding, did a stellar job, tho not exactly what Rease asked for. They had a 200,000 lb (I think) hydraulic press and Chuck (owner) was able to bend a sleeve that fit perfectly over the fractures. He then doubled and tripled the steel around the A frame. He also welded heavy duty gussets over the joints. I really don't think it's ever going to be a problem again. ETI picked up the repair bill and we are back on the road again. Chuck met us at 0830 and finished at 1800. A FULL day and a GREAT job! We hooked him up with a nice tip to boot! well worth it to have it fixed right!

btw- obviously he had to remove the jacks and re-install.

steve

[Ron in BC]

Looks like a really good belt and braces repair. Don't think that you'll ever have a problem with it again.

Ron

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by flatpick

P4071465.jpg
P4071466.jpg
P4071470.jpg

Hurray, we got our trailer all healed up! We had to take it 25 miles back to Barstow CA from Newberry Springs, all while limping along at 35mph with a cracked, separated frame. No telling how long we drove that way before we discovered it.
The welding shop, Sentry Welding, did a stellar job, tho not exactly what Rease asked for. They had a 200,000 lb (I think) hydraulic press and Chuck (owner) was able to bend a sleeve that fit perfectly over the fractures. He then doubled and tripled the steel around the A frame. He also welded heavy duty gussets over the joints. I really don't think it's ever going to be a problem again. ETI picked up the repair bill and we are back on the road again. Chuck met us at 0830 and finished at 1800. A FULL day and a GREAT job! We hooked him up with a nice tip to boot! well worth it to have it fixed right!

btw- obviously he had to remove the jacks and re-install.

steve

Glad you are back on the road. With work that good I would have considered having both sides done.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by flatpick

P4071465.jpg
P4071466.jpg
P4071470.jpg

Hurray, we got our trailer all healed up! We had to take it 25 miles back to Barstow CA from Newberry Springs, all while limping along at 35mph with a cracked, separated frame. No telling how long we drove that way before we discovered it.
The welding shop, Sentry Welding, did a stellar job, tho not exactly what Rease asked for. They had a 200,000 lb (I think) hydraulic press and Chuck (owner) was able to bend a sleeve that fit perfectly over the fractures. He then doubled and tripled the steel around the A frame. He also welded heavy duty gussets over the joints. I really don't think it's ever going to be a problem again. ETI picked up the repair bill and we are back on the road again. Chuck met us at 0830 and finished at 1800. A FULL day and a GREAT job! We hooked him up with a nice tip to boot! well worth it to have it fixed right!

btw- obviously he had to remove the jacks and re-install.

steve

Looks like nice work ! Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

With work that good I would have considered having both sides done.

Surely both sides were done (with photos of just one side because both look the same), because both sides were broken... right?