Frameless Window Failure

[Hilola]

One thing I liked about our Hi-Lo trailer was the louvered jalousie windows.

[padlin]

Wonder if one would one get water leaks when traveling in the rain in an other then folded up trailer?

[Hilola]

Originally Posted by padlin

Wonder if one would one get water leaks when traveling in the rain in an other then folded up trailer?

Bob, if you're talking about the Hi-Lo, it is designed to only travel with the top collapsed down.

I was wondering how they'd leak on a trailer other then your Hi-Lo. I do recall them on VW buses.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Airxcel | Maxxair | Window/Maxx

Airxcel still lists them on their website - but just try to buy one!

We have 2 of the window maxxs on our Casita . They allow you to open the window for ventillation when raining and work extremely well . From what we’ve been told they are no longer in production . The mechanism on our rear Escape window is broken so we presently leave well enough alone . Hopefully come Spring we can locate parts to repair the window and not have to replace the entire thing .
We have friends with a new SOB 5th wheel trailer and they have had issues with their frameless windows ( leaks , lost seals and binding mechanisms) It appears that the problems with the frameless windows are not limited to Escape nor is it the fault of improper installation by Escape
We have had zero issues with the sliding windows in our Casita but they are not thermopane so condensation is an issue plus IMHO the frameless windows look better .

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Airxcel | Maxxair | Window/Maxx

Airxcel still lists them on their website - but just try to buy one!

I found two recently in a small Ohio RV shop from a tip on FGRV. They may have been the last two in existence. Instead of installing them maybe I should have sold them to the highest bidder!

[WillW]

New this forum and considering putting deposit down for a 19, but wanted to see if this window issue has been resolved. We prefer to get thermal windows. Questions is, is the problem with the frameless windows isolated to the small kitchen and bathroom windows only, which are now being sold as framed/non-thermal, so problem solved? Or are there still lingering issues with the other frameless thermal windows as well? All up we like the frameless windows, but would really hate having to deal with warranty issues as mentioned by others in the thread on such a nice new trailer.

[cpaharley2008]

Welcome Will, to our Escape world. My last Escape 19 had the frameless windows without any issues. That said, the ones that seemed to fail were the small bath windows. So Escape is now offering them in non thermal only. The awning windows, in my opinion are good for operation in wet weather.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Welcome Will, to our Escape world. My last Escape 19 had the frameless windows without any issues. That said, the ones that seemed to fail were the small bath windows. So Escape is now offering them in non thermal only. The awning windows, in my opinion are good for operation in wet weather.

Jim I know of one , because he bought after looking at ours . The rear windows in the rear came apart in months on his new trailer . Those are big windows . Pat

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Welcome Will, to our Escape world. My last Escape 19 had the frameless windows without any issues. That said, the ones that seemed to fail were the small bath windows. So Escape is now offering them in non thermal only. The awning windows, in my opinion are good for operation in wet weather.

When I met with Rease in September 2018, he confirmed he had seen only the small windows separating. The adhesive becomes gummy and releases its' grip. They were used in the 17A & B and in the bathroom and kitchen of the larger models.

I have four of these windows. Three have been replaced. It is a constant worry for me as the frameless windows don't appear to be as robust as the framed. Now that the framed thermal windows are a listed option, that would be my choice.

[KatrinaOstby]

My 5.0-TA small thermal bathroom window started to come apart a few days ago. Contacted Escape, they started to arrange for a replacement single pane window. Then a day or two later they contacted me and said that the window company had been bought out and the new company wanted to repair the double pane window rather than replacing it with a single pane window. Waiting to see what will happen. Supposedly they will send parts to my local RV repair place which will do the repairs.

[davidmurphy02]

Originally Posted by WillW

New this forum and considering putting deposit down for a 19, but wanted to see if this window issue has been resolved. We prefer to get thermal windows. Questions is, is the problem with the frameless windows isolated to the small kitchen and bathroom windows only, which are now being sold as framed/non-thermal, so problem solved? Or are there still lingering issues with the other frameless thermal windows as well? All up we like the frameless windows, but would really hate having to deal with warranty issues as mentioned by others in the thread on such a nice new trailer.

We ordered our trailer last year when the frameless window failures were a much bigger topic. We really wanted both the thermal glass and especially the awning style openings so we went with the frameless, knowing that there is a greater risk of problems than with the slider windows. Any trailer component can fail and all have some small failure rate - we talked to Reace on our visit to Chilliwack in September and it seemed like things were improving with the frameless windows, and indeed if they had a really high failure rate ETI would not offer them.

The failure rate did seem to be much higher for the small bath windows, although a few people have had problems with other larger windows. The window manufacturer recently discontinued making the frameless small bath windows which is why ETI no longer offers them. At the end of the day, the functionality of the frameless windows was, to us, worth the (hopefully low) risk of a window problem down the road. And ultimately replacing a window, if it comes to that, is not really that big a deal....a lot easier than replacing a furnace!

Our trailer is one of the last ones to have the small frameless bath window. When we pick it up next month I may see how much a replacement bath window costs and pick one up to set aside and have on hand in the event we have a problem with that window a few years down the road since we are in Texas and can't pop back up to ETI very easily.

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by WillW

New this forum and considering putting deposit down for a 19, but wanted to see if this window issue has been resolved. We prefer to get thermal windows. Questions is, is the problem with the frameless windows isolated to the small kitchen and bathroom windows only, which are now being sold as framed/non-thermal, so problem solved? Or are there still lingering issues with the other frameless thermal windows as well? All up we like the frameless windows, but would really hate having to deal with warranty issues as mentioned by others in the thread on such a nice new trailer.

With the massive amount of consolidation in the RV industry, most trailer manufacturers are sourcing their windows (slider and awning) from Lippert Components. They recently purchased Hehr Windows, which manufactures the frameless windows used on the Escape. These windows are widely used throughout the industry. You see them everywhere. Trailers, Class A's, etc.

For what it is worth, Oliver Trailers only offer dual pane sliders. No singles and no awnings. Gorgeous trailer but pricing starts at $48K USD for a single axle 18 footer. Factory direct sales, like Escape. BigFoot also have dual pane sliders on their standard package. List price for the single-axle 17.5 footer is $46.8K USD. Sold through dealer network. I can't find anywhere on the Casita site where they offer thermal windows, sliders or otherwise.

I would hazard a guess and suggest that you are not going to get a thermal slider window on the Escape that is any different than on either the Oliver or the Bigfoot.

[steve dunham]

Frameless windows are extremely common on better built stick trailers . If you read the trailer forums for Keystone or Forest River or Heartland , etc etc ,etc franeless window failure is quite common and in all window sizes and in all climates
If Escape is using the same frameless windows as the big boys then the failure rate should follow . I don’t see this problem going away but only getting worse with age and usage
The same applies to appliances , the failure rate across the industry is high and again Escape is no exception .
The fiberglass body of my trailer may last 20 years but the rest of the components will be long gone to the junk yard

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by WillW

New this forum and considering putting deposit down for a 19, but wanted to see if this window issue has been resolved. We prefer to get thermal windows. Questions is, is the problem with the frameless windows isolated to the small kitchen and bathroom windows only, which are now being sold as framed/non-thermal, so problem solved? Or are there still lingering issues with the other frameless thermal windows as well? All up we like the frameless windows, but would really hate having to deal with warranty issues as mentioned by others in the thread on such a nice new trailer.

I have a 2018 model 19, which we picked up last September. It has the frameless thermal windows all around, including the kitchen and bathroom. So far not a lick of trouble, and the trailer has been camped and stored over a wide range of temperatures. We have been extremely careful, however, not to over tighten any of these windows. That said, had the framed thermal windows been an option when we ordered, I probably would have gone for them instead. Although the frameless windows have a modern, sleek look to them and great functionality, it's a worry that we'll have failures into the future. We'll continue to operate them carefully and hopefully get lots of years out of them.

[GoCampBC]

Originally Posted by KatrinaOstby

My 5.0-TA small thermal bathroom window started to come apart a few days ago. Contacted Escape, they started to arrange for a replacement single pane window. Then a day or two later they contacted me and said that the window company had been bought out and the new company wanted to repair the double pane window rather than replacing it with a single pane window. Waiting to see what will happen. Supposedly they will send parts to my local RV repair place which will do the repairs.

We did our first spring wash on the weekend and noticed our bathroom window begun separating. We haven't emailed ETI yet, but will later this week. Repairing the thermal window would be great, but wouldn't they need to make sure the air in between the panes has low moisture to prevent fogging? Residential windows are filled with argon or krypton gas, but I'm not sure what the process is for these windows.

[cpaharley2008]

I do not think there is dead air space between the panes, it is just 2 pieces of glass glued together, the thickness gives you the thermal impact.

[steve dunham]

Glass by itself has a very low R / U factor
.Doubling the thickness of the glass would improve break resistance but do little to lessen heat conductivity . Thermopane windows consist of 2 panes of glass with an air space that is sealed so they don’t fog . The glass is often coated or has a film applied to limit solar gain
The space between the glass is often filled with an inert gas ( Argon)
Cardinal glass is one of the biggest suppliers of thermopane glass to the window industry
(Andersen Window )

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I do not think there is dead air space between the panes, it is just 2 pieces of glass glued together, the thickness gives you the thermal impact.

It's hard for me to imagine any manufacturer going to the expense of using two panes, and not get any benefit from them, but one should never underestimate the potential for stupidity. Certainly conventional dual-pane RV windows have an air gap, as any "thermal" window does.

Unfortunately RV window manufacturers do a terrible job of describing their product. I heard that Escape was using Hehr, which was bought by Lippert, so the current windows may be the Lippert 3000 Series Bonded Window; whether this is the right product or not, Lippert's description - without anything about what is between the panes - demonstrates the problem.

[Rossue]

Shortly after leaving ETI with our new 21 we noticed rusted screws inside on th window frame. LSS- spoke with the Hehr rep for ETI and he said Hehr started late with "thermal" windows as that was where the market was going. He said they were just two plates of glass with no airspace that did not offer any real R value but probably did help with sound attenuation.

[stratos175]

I just got back from a trip to Little Talbot Island State Park, this time last year is when we saw our first Escape, the camp host had one. I'm sure some of you know who I'm talking about. Since then they sold that one (2016) and now have a 2019, when speaking to them about the new one I asked about the flip out windows and she said she really liked them the condensation was less so she was happy about that. I guess there is a trade out for everything.

Enjoy the journey.

Steve