Frameless Window Failure

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

...spoke with the Hehr rep for ETI and he said Hehr started late with "thermal" windows as that was where the market was going. He said they were just two plates of glass with no airspace that did not offer any real R value but probably did help with sound attenuation.

I suppose that it is possible that this is true of the "frameless" windows (although it would make no sense), but Hehr has been making double-pane RV windows for many years, and other series do have the air gap that any intelligent designer would include. For instance, the Hehr 5600 Series Insulated Slider RV Window includes

Window Glazing- 1/2" Insulated glass (1/8 - 1/4 - 1/8)

(that's 1/4" air gap between two 1/8" glass panes). The attached drawing is from the 5600 series description. The 7600 series glazing description is the same.

<insert usual cynical comment about sales reps here >

Hehr was purchased by Lippert; a Google search for "hehr dual pane rv windows" leads to Lippert's page for the 8600 series (which is not the frameless design), which includes this in the description:

All glass is 7/16-inch insulated units

No sane and competent designer would use a solid 7/16" of glass - that would be unreasonably heavy and pointless. This is presumably 1/8" glass + 3/16" air + 1/8" glass.

The frameless "thermal" or dual-pane window descriptions on Lippert's site do not provide the glass unit specifications, but the Hehr 6400 Series ("all glass" exterior, i.e. "frameless") description from a distributor includes

Uses a 1/2" thick insulated glass panel. This system utilizes a double moisture seal barrier to survive in the changing conditions.

[steve dunham]

Does anyone know where you can get replacement knobs and the metal operating hardware for the frameless windows ? ETI ? Hehr ?
If you have repaired a frameless window any pointers would be appreciated .
We would like to be able to open the rear window of our trailer this Summer

[KatrinaOstby]

I just received a 6 foot piece of weatherstripping and about a dozen black screws. It came from Escape Trailer, after I had requested repair/replacement of the small bathroom window. Does anyone have a clue how to use weatherstripping and 5/8" sheet metal screws to repair these little insulated opening windows?

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by KatrinaOstby

I just received a 6 foot piece of weatherstripping and about a dozen black screws. It came from Escape Trailer, after I had requested repair/replacement of the small bathroom window. Does anyone have a clue how to use weatherstripping and 5/8" sheet metal screws to repair these little insulated opening windows?

Really??!! No other instructions? Please post a picture of the stripping.

Paul

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by KatrinaOstby

I just received a 6 foot piece of weatherstripping and about a dozen black screws. It came from Escape Trailer, after I had requested repair/replacement of the small bathroom window. Does anyone have a clue how to use weatherstripping and 5/8" sheet metal screws to repair these little insulated opening windows?

Did you get a replacement window too, or just the items listed?

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by KatrinaOstby

I just received a 6 foot piece of weatherstripping and about a dozen black screws. It came from Escape Trailer, after I had requested repair/replacement of the small bathroom window. Does anyone have a clue how to use weatherstripping and 5/8" sheet metal screws to repair these little insulated opening windows?

The "weatherstripping" is the sealant for the bathroom window - it is applied on the back of the window flange and seals the window to the trailer. The black screws are the same as the ones now on your trailer window - Escape sends new ones as the old ones are sometimes difficult to reinstall.

I received the same stuff when I had to replace a window. Escape sends out the "kit" to install the window with the window itself shipped by Hehr/Lippert. I received my kit weeks before the window arrived.

Below is a video on replacing the window. It's a framed window but the procedure is the same for both types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K02m24R73B0

[Jimrules]

Originally Posted by KatrinaOstby

I just received a 6 foot piece of weatherstripping and about a dozen black screws. It came from Escape Trailer, after I had requested repair/replacement of the small bathroom window. Does anyone have a clue how to use weatherstripping and 5/8" sheet metal screws to repair these little insulated opening windows?

When I got my replacement window ETI only sent the install parts. The window was shipped directly from the manufacturer. ETI told me the window would take longer (and it did).

[John in Santa Cruz]

is it weather stripping, or is it butyl 'tape', which is this string of sticky black goo on a wax paper backing ?

[KatrinaOstby]

Got an e-mail from Escape (on a Saturday no less). And sure enough, this is the weather stripping and screws I will need to install the window when it arrives.
Thanks all! Katrina

[Cascadian]

I picked up my 2017 17B from Escape September 2017. Frameless bathroom window failed on our first long trip the following month, and replaced by Escape under warranty. Of course, the remaining three small frameless windows delaminated last weekend, past the one year manufacturer warranty on the windows. My failure rate is 100% on all the small windows. It will be a day trip up these and about $950 CAD to replace them. Very disappointing on a <2 year old trailer that has seen very little use. Escape is not offering any help with this.

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by Cascadian

I picked up my 2017 17B from Escape September 2017. Frameless bathroom window failed on our first long trip the following month, and replaced by Escape under warranty. Of course, the remaining three small frameless windows delaminated last weekend, past the one year manufacturer warranty on the windows. My failure rate is 100% on all the small windows. It will be a day trip up these and about $950 CAD to replace them. Very disappointing on a <2 year old trailer that has seen very little use. Escape is not offering any help with this.

Sorry to hear this. Lippert (formerly Hehr) manufactured the window. I had three of four fail on my 17B. Caught them under warranty (just). Fingers crossed on the replacements. Not much trust in the manufacturer. Then again, not much choice left in the market as Lippert seems to be buying up all their competitors (like Dometic).

I believe the small sealed frameless windows are no longer manufactured. Single pane frameless (only) or sliders for that size. Let me know if I am incorrect.

You might have better luck going direct to the manufacturer. Should I be stocking an extra window in my spare parts bin?

The windows only carry a one year warranty which IMHO should be waived given the high failure rate for this specific size window. Which leads me to ask "Who else in addition to Escape sourced this specific window?" I would not be surprised to hear "Not many others" or "No one".

The replacement windows are relatively easy to install for the do-it-yourselfer. Not sure about the blind attachment however.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

Paul

[Olddog]

I know commercial insulated glass units are made up with an inner pane of glass, an aluminum spacer and an outer pane of glass. The spacer is inset somewhat and the spacer has a small strip of butyl tape on both side that adheres to the glass on either side. On the inset between the glass and spacer a quality silicone sealant is applied which covers the spacer and seals to the glass as well. Really don't know why manufacturer couldn't use this fabrication application. It's very simple and insures delamination will not occur.

[richardr]

Our 21 bathroom window closing mechanism pulled loose twice. So instead of taking chances of having a total double-pane glass failure, I sealed the window shut.

[Rossue]

Can one replace the defective frameless windows with slider windows or were the cutouts on the trailer a different size? I mean who would want to do a whole trailer replacement all over again in a year or more when the replacement frameless are out of warranty?

I would be really upset if I were in Cascadian's (or anyone else's shoes having multiple failures within such a short time. If the new ETI ownership is as customer focused as is assured by many, including The Squad then maybe they should run interference with Lippert the way Reace did with Dometic and the turkey RML refrigerators.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Can one replace the defective frameless windows with slider windows or were the cutouts on the trailer a different size? I mean who would want to do a whole trailer replacement all over again in a year or more when the replacement frameless are out of warranty?

I'm sure a company like Motion Windows would make you anything you want, but you are into some real money.

https://www.motionwindows.com/

[Patandlinda]

I recently advised a new to be owner to make sure she read all the information about these windows and the wonderful awning . I also said lots of information out there from other manufacturer owners and their problems . I feel bad even a customer who bought a new trailer after seeing ours had failure . I said to be careful who is giving you advice from the forum . I think I was poo pooed and dismissed . I tried to help and it got me no where . Sometimes people don’t want to listen and think you have some kind of agenda . I just like to help and I am giving back for all the help I have received . Pat

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I'm sure a company like Motion Windows would make you anything you want, but you are into some real money.

https://www.motionwindows.com/

Should have said will the Hehr(now Lippert) framed windows fit into openings cut for frameless.

[sclifrickson]

I thought I’d read that there was some third company that will disassemble and correctly reseal the defective Hehr double panes? Figured that would be the way we’d go if we ever had a problem once out of warranty.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

I thought I’d read that there was some third company that will disassemble and correctly reseal the defective Hehr double panes? Figured that would be the way we’d go if we ever had a problem once out of warranty.

Yes, at least around here there is at least one company that will do that. Lot's of companies make thermal pane units to supply local window manufacturers. I've also had them replace one sheet of glass that was cracked and make a new thermal unit.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Dettling

We also had to have our bath window and both front dinette windows replaced in our 2017 17B. (so yes, all the "small" windows, not the larger windows at the back or sides). They were flapping but not yet completely separated. A bit of duct tape held them together until we got to Chiliwack.

We noticed the problem the day before we left for our roadtrip to the Yukon this July. Since we live only an hour from the factory, after a quick phone call, we dropped it off and the windows were replaced within a few hours. Outstanding service that allowed us to be on the road the next day as planned. Escape was so accommodating!

The new windows come with a little sticker not to over-tighten...a good reminder.

The trailer that was sold after looking at ours had the back window the large one fail . 4-6 mo old . Pat