Generator

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Grasshog

How can you tell if your generator has an open ground or floating ground I guess? Mine is a champion duel fuel and does have the 30 amp receptacle. I’m guessing if I plug it in and then check my EMS? Thanks in advance.

EMS will let you know, but the Champion 2500 dual fuel (200961/100899) is floating neutral. Bet yours is as well..........

Ask me how I know!

I was testing my new #200961 on propane today to run the Dometic P2 11k in 100F outside ambient - forgot the nuetral bonding plus at first..........EMS said "No". After that, the Champion did fine with the A/C without a soft start. About 13 amps running @ 117v (batt charger off - fridge on AC power)

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by brjohnso

By far, the best gas can is the authentic NATO military can made by Wavian or Valpro. It is based on the WWII German gas can, which has never been surpassed IMHO. They are expensive (nearly $100 each), but they will never leak or smell, are much stronger than any plastic can, and they will last a lifetime. Every plastic can I have ever seen eventually leaks, degrades, and often the light elements of the fuel can evaporate right through the plastic. The fiddly little plastic "no spill" spouts usually cause more spills than they prevent. NATO cans come with a simple spout that clamps on, and the can itself is internally vented through the spout. They pour fast.

+1 (if you can't use, or are out of, propane)

Plastic cans "breathe" right thru the plastic and the lighter components go away after time...........I use NATO metal cans for long term storage (bought years ago for MUCH less) as described above and have zero problems with 1 yr + old ethanol gas (no snake oil additives needed - but shake up before using due to potential phase (water) change). Get an old style spout - not the CARB included "no spill". https://www.roverparts.com/off-road-...y-cans/JC3009/

Scepter MFC is 2nd choice (plastic but supposedly an EPA/CARB "no go" in the U.S. now)
https://dstactical.com/scepter-milit...-canister-20l/

Also, get a "Mr. Funnel" or similar:
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Funnel-AF1...632004-9521006

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

The no spill plastic cans have served us well. They are about
30 dollars each. I have one for diesel and on for gasoline. If you don’t spill any fuel on the outside when filling and you get the lid on tight to the “retainer” lock serration there’s no smell of fuel in the vehicle. There’s no separate plug for air. It’s all done in the cap. You can get them in 2.5 gallons or 5 gallon sizes. It’s easy to pour from the 5 if you don’t fill it clear full. Or you can put Gas from the big can into a smaller one for accurate pouring when you fill the generator.
Iowa Dave

Please don't carry gasoline (or propane) inside a vehicle / trunk.


Back of pickup, yeah, well, open bed is best, but ........ My firefighter years showed me some things I do not like to think about anymore..........

[sparkyradar]

Originally Posted by Grasshog

How can you tell if your generator has an open ground or floating ground I guess?

Generator manufacturers don't really know how you'll use your generator:
-to power your home, in the event of a power-outage
-to run job-site tools or to power your trailer

The National Electrical Code (Canada, and I expect USA too) only allows for one, single ground-connection, where the Neutral and green-wire safety ground are connected together, and connected to earth. Only one point.

When you power your home, this Neutral - Ground -earth bonding exists, generally at your fuse-panel or power-entry point. As a result, the generator is not to have Neutral-Ground - earth.

But for a trailer, or at a job-site, this pre-existing Neutral-Ground-earth does not exist, and must be provided. In this case, you are to drive a rod (or bury a plate, where permitted), and also make the Neutral-Ground-earth connections yourself.

It's really ulp to the manufacturer as to what they do and how they make their generators, but it's up to you (the User) to do it right and make it safe. RTFM

Generally speaking, generators are un-bonded / un-earthed and will work well with your home. If you're going to run saws, pumps, or your Escape, you'll probably have to make a couple of connections yourself (for safety).

It's all about safety, and "step potential"...

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by sparkyradar

..................

But for a trailer, or at a job-site, this pre-existing Neutral-Ground-earth does not exist, and must be provided. In this case, you are to drive a rod (or bury a plate, where permitted), and also make the Neutral-Ground-earth connections yourself.

If you're going to run saws, pumps, or your Escape, you'll probably have to make a couple of connections yourself (for safety).

It's all about safety, and "step potential"...

Separately derived system (SDS)

Using a portable gen to power a trailer via the shore power receptacle is a SDS.

Separately derived systems are completely isolated from the grid. The following are considered separate systems.

1. If all power connections from the generator are only through the plug and chord arrangement from the power outlets mounted on them without the use of any transfer switches.

Ommission of Grounding Rods

As per OSHA, a generator frame need not be grounded with a copper rod and can act as the ground itself if it is separately derived and meets the following requirements:

1. If the generator only feeds power to electrical equipment mounted on it or connected to it by extension cords and plugs through power receptacles mounted on it.
2. All the metal parts that are not designed to carry any current, such as internal combustion engines, the fuel tank, and the generator housing, are bonded to the metal frame.
3. Equipment grounding conductor terminals, forming part of the power receptacles mounted on the generator, are also bonded to the frame.

If all of the above conditions are met, the generator’s frame acts as the ground bar and eliminates the need for a separate copper rod.

[edlynnrich]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Please don't carry gasoline (or propane) inside a vehicle / trunk.


Back of pickup, yeah, well, open bed is best, but ........ My firefighter years showed me some things I do not like to think about anymore..........

I’m with you brother…

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Please don't carry gasoline (or propane) inside a vehicle / trunk.


Back of pickup, yeah, well, open bed is best, but ........ My firefighter years showed me some things I do not like to think about anymore..........

Not everyone has a pickup and barring the total takeover of gasoline engines by battery power, how would all the people with lawnmowers get gasoline from the pump to their home or place of business. Would this be an opportunity for a new service industry called Uber petroleum and propane products delivery? UberPPPD? I will continue to take my chances. But thanks for the advice.
Iowa Dave .

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Please don't carry gasoline (or propane) inside a vehicle / trunk.


Back of pickup, yeah, well, open bed is best, but ........ My firefighter years showed me some things I do not like to think about anymore..........

One more gas can tip: A gas can less than half full is more dangerous than a full gas can because of the combustible vapor in the headspace of the can. Safest to transport a full can when possible.