21C coupler height wiggle room

[bborzell]

We will pick up our 21C on the 17th of November. I planned on a 19” coupler height when I ordered a Blue Ox SwayPro WDH.

After discussing the 21C coupler height and the receiver height of our Jeep Grand Cherokee with Blue Ox, the tech advised getting the 7 hole stinger. As it turns out, the lowest mounting point on the stinger still leaves the ball at 21.5”.

The Blue Ox manual says to setup shooting for coupler height or + one inch. So, it’s close, but no banana. My fallback is using a 4” drop with no WDH untilI can replace the 7 hole with a 9 hole, if needed.

Wondering if any 21C owners have dealt with similar hitch height issues.

[bborzell]

Here are a couple of pics.

[Iowa Dave]

On the pro tow and the Anderson, the tower can be turned over to get the desired height. I believe this is also possible on the Safeway EZ2 now sold by Escape. Both the pro tow on our 19 and the Anderson on our 21 had adequate adjustment to get the desired height. We used them on the Highlander and needed a different height than the the previous owner used on his Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango. Then when we sold the 19, I adjusted it to the right height for the new owner.
Iowa Dave

[rjetre@charter.net]

Hello,
I seems that you are really close.... You will not know the true height until you have hitched the trailer (it is dependent on your tow vehicle). I would suggest wait and see. If within 1/2 in. that is probably good. I with an Andersen approx 1/2 high in the front...

[Civilguy]

As it turns out, the lowest mounting point on the stinger still leaves the ball at 21.5”.

The picture makes it look like it's closer to 20 inches - is that correct?

The JGC will have some "squat" when you apply the tongue weight to the ball. I don't recall what ours is, but I expect there will be at least a half-inch.

The other factor is the air suspension which will drop 0.6" in "aero mode" at ~45 mph or so. So, it seems like you are just about on target.

https://media.stellantisnorthamerica...?id=13683&mid=

Incidentally, having the ball a bit high or low will affect the angle at which the weight of trailer bears on the tow vehicle and will very slightly change the vertical component of the primarily-horizontal forces exerted by the mass of the trailer when towing and braking. However, an inch or so will not have any significant, dreadful impacts on handling, braking, etc.

Having the ball high or low might also have a bit of impact on the WDH adjustment. The Sway Pro is supposed to be set with three links of chain below the attachment bracket when set up on a level trailer. However, it seems it would require the ball to be "off" by several inches in order to move the required adjustment by one link. You could consult with Blue Ox if you felt a need to check on this.

By the way, having the ball an inch or two high or low will NOT appreciably change the weight distribution of the trailer, as I have often seen posted. In fact, if I see that nonsense posted one more time, I'm going to whip up a free-body diagram and then send them to their room without any supper.

[7Gentex]

Doesn't ETI spec the trailer ball top height to be 19" "When loaded", which I assume to be when hooked up? (No body lift value =19").

Because after you hitch up, and adjust the WDH (if so equipped), that's when it should be at 19" to ride level? So starting off high usually works - assuming some squat, even with a WDH.

Or, am I way off base on that assumption?

The above is how it worked on my last trailer - we targeted around an inch high on the ball unhitched to start.

[bborzell]

I solved the issue by selling the Jeep with air suspension and buying a RAM 1500 without. ��

The RAM uses the same 4” drop and comes in at 20” unladen. With the 21C level, the top of the ball is a bit over 19”.

[7Gentex]

How you liking the 21C?

Just signed the build sheet for mine.

Any idea what the tongue weight is on yours?

I have a ridiculously low payload rating on my Ford pickup, (Yea, a 2017 Raptor SuperCab) due to soft springs and crazy suspension travel for off road (Yes, I do) and may have to re-spring the rear suspension with Deaver HD +3 to have any carrying capacity at all..............but, well worth it!

This is all kinda of like having a BOAT (Break out another thousand!)

[bborzell]

It’s doing everything right. All parts work and it is a bunch more comfortable than the Airstream Basecamp we had previously.

Tongue weight when we got home from picking it up was right at 500#.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Doesn't ETI spec the trailer ball top height to be 19" "When loaded", which I assume to be when hooked up?

"Loaded" means when carrying the weight of whatever you are putting in the trailer. The extra weight (beyond the weight of the trailer itself) will push the trailer down on the suspension slightly, and ETI appears to be assuming some typical amount of load to result in a particular height of the frame when loaded. The top-of-ball height is what results with the trailer loaded and the trailer level.

What you do with WD hitches or whatever doesn't change the correct height of the trailer: after hitching up and connecting whatever you are using and making whatever adjustments are appropriate, the top of the ball should end up at 19" above the ground.

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Because after you hitch up, and adjust the WDH (if so equipped), that's when it should be at 19" to ride level? So starting off high usually works - assuming some squat, even with a WDH.

Yes.
And yes, with a properly adjusted WDH the rear of the tow vehicle that doesn't have adjustable suspension (such as air springs) will still go down due to the tongue weight (compared to the unhitched condition).

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

...... after hitching up and connecting whatever you are using and making whatever adjustments are appropriate, the top of the ball should end up at 19" above the ground....

Quoted for emphasis as it seems many are just measuring the ball height on an unhitched TV.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by bborzell

It’s doing everything right. All parts work and it is a bunch more comfortable than the Airstream Basecamp we had previously.

Tongue weight when we got home from picking it up was right at 500#.

Thanks, and enjoy!

[scubarx]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

...and may have to re-spring the rear suspension with Deaver HD +3 to have any carrying capacity at all..............but, well worth it!...

There is nothing you can add to an existing vehicle that will legally change your cargo carrying capacity. Whatever is posted on the sticker inside on the driver's door post is all you're ever gonna have. If you are ever in a situation (accident) where the weight of the occupants and cargo come into question and you are found to be overweight based on that sticker your insurance most likely won't stand behind you and as they say in the South "You in a heap o'trouble now, boy."

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Quoted for emphasis as it seems many are just measuring the ball height on an unhitched TV.

Probably true. I made my own stinger based on the 19" measurement. When all was said and done with the WDH my trailer rode slightly nose down. I raised the ball height 2" and the trailer sits perfectly level, much more to my liking.

Ron

[cpaharley2008]

I installed Firestone air bags inside my rear coil suspension. when towing I add about 20 psi to them to firm the rear of the truck.

[GregColdewey]

We picked up our 21NE in Salt Lake City and towed it back to San Antonio with a regular ball and no WDH, and it did just fine even in some strong winds in Arizona. I do like the WDH, but waited till I got home and had the time, a level spot and tools to set up the WDH properly. Point is you should be able to get it home with no problem and can figure it out from there. BTW, TV is a 2018 F-150.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by scubarx

There is nothing you can add to an existing vehicle that will legally change your cargo carrying capacity. Whatever is posted on the sticker inside on the driver's door post is all you're ever gonna have.

True, but modifications can enable the suspension to better handle the allowed cargo capacity, making it more useful... at the expense of other compromises, of course.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by scubarx

There is nothing you can add to an existing vehicle that will legally change your cargo carrying capacity. Whatever is posted on the sticker inside on the driver's door post is all you're ever gonna have. If you are ever in a situation (accident) where the weight of the occupants and cargo come into question and you are found to be overweight based on that sticker your insurance most likely won't stand behind you and as they say in the South "You in a heap o'trouble now, boy."

Yes and no. Care to cite a legal case of the above?

Also, define "legally"

The GVWR/GAWR manufactures sticker can be "legally binding" as built.

The "Tire and Loading Information" sticker is a manufacture's recommendation.

Both are based on the minimum specified tire rating on the stickers. So, what if I go from a specified C rating, to a D rating?

Also, per the NHTSA, 49 CFR 567.7 DOES NOT apply to the consumer or individual vehicle owner. The law basically applies only to the manufacturer or an authorized vehicle "alterer."

The Legal definition: "Alterer means a person who alters by addition, substitution, or removal of components (other than readily attachable components) a certified vehicle before the first purchase of the vehicle other than for resale."

However, consumers automatically assume legal responsibility for all modifications made to a vehicle and they must endure the risk.

I remove the tags from my pillows and mattress as well

Regardless, my post above was worded badly regarding payload. I will not exceed the stated, but I will upgrade the rear spring packs if it gets too "squishy" feeling. (technical term!)

My GVWR is 400 lbs less than my combined GAWR likely due to the extended travel springs, but I will abide by the limitations set forth on the stickers.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

... consumers automatically assume legal responsibility for all modifications made to a vehicle and they must endure the risk.

That's important, because the springs are only part of the chain of components involved in determining the safe axle load. It's not just risk tolerance - someone who puts springs from a 10,000 pound axle on their light-duty pickup and declares that it now has five ton capacity doesn't understand the consequences to all of the other components. That consumer can decide to take that risk to their own vehicle and their own safety, but has no right to endanger the rest of us on the same roads.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That's important, because the springs are only part of the chain of components involved in determining the safe axle load. It's not just risk tolerance - someone who puts springs from a 10,000 pound axle on their light-duty pickup and declares that it now has five ton capacity doesn't understand the consequences to all of the other components. That consumer can decide to take that risk to their own vehicle and their own safety, but has no right to endanger the rest of us on the same roads.

Agreed, though we are being "endangered" by a whole lot more than overloading. I stopped riding motorcycles due to folks on "smart" phones. "Drivers" just don't pay attention like they used to.........for all kinds of reasons (why doesn't really matter)

Rule #1 - Fly the plane.

If needed, the replacement spring packs I am looking at are "rated" at 450 to 650 lbs. over stock. I won't be breaking the original stated payload limit though. My tongue weight limitation is #600 and a trailer of #6,000 with a WD hitch, though that leaves very little payload left after a driver and passenger. I'll load up the trailer, instead of the truck.