Downsizing tow vehicle will I regret it

[Micheal K]

Originally Posted by Red

The following is from the Escape Industries web site
...
Approx. Total dry weight 2,950 lbs

This weight is for a completely unoptioned trailer - adding a/c, themal windows, and solar with the dual 6v batteries will quickly move that number up. Put your gear, food and some water in and the wet weight will be close to what Jim said.

Also, pretty sure that dry hitch weight is incorrect. Looks like a carryover from Gen1 specifications.

[Hilola]

There is no substitute for actually weighing your RV. Published weights are generally optimistic, at best.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Hilola

There is no substitute for actually weighing your RV. Published weights are generally optimistic, at best.

They said the towing weight of their Airstream is 5100 lbs but they don't overload the shell canopy mounted on the bed. A loaded 21 Escape is a bit lighter than that...hmm

Your point is well taken, it is best to weigh the trailer to be sure.

A towing weight Airstream at 5100 lbs is going to be heavier than a 19ft Escape. As many of us have determined through real world use, a mid size truck will be able to pull the 19. A full size will be less labored and will have more interior space.

[noblets]

I was told by my ETI rep that the weight published was a "calculated weight" not an actual scale weight. The first stop for us across the border was the public scale near Lynden, WA. Our empty 2018 17A turned out to be several hundred pounds heavier than we thought.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by noblets

I was told by my ETI rep that the weight published was a "calculated weight" not an actual scale weight. The first stop for us across the border was the public scale near Lynden, WA. Our empty 2018 17A turned out to be several hundred pounds heavier than we thought.

Would you please elaborate on the scale you are referring to (location, name or whatever might help)? Thanks

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by noblets

I was told by my ETI rep that the weight published was a "calculated weight" not an actual scale weight.

What is calculated is the weight with options: base weight plus the weights of each individual option. They apparently don't calculate a tongue weight with options.

Originally Posted by noblets

The first stop for us across the border was the public scale near Lynden, WA. Our empty 2018 17A turned out to be several hundred pounds heavier than we thought.

Are you saying that the trailer was "several hundred pounds heavier" than the published base weight (1970 lbs), or "several hundred pounds heavier" than the optioned weight shown on the paperwork for your specific trailer? I assume that this was while still dry (not water or propane) and empty (none of your stuff).

[JumpinJoe]

I towed my Casita 3500 lbs with my 03 Tacoma 6 cylinder 3.4 and upgraded to an 06 Tundra with a small 8 cylinder. So much easier towing and the gas mileage is the same when towing. No more white knuckled down hills and oh so slow long uphill grades. This is an easy one. DON'T DO IT...good luck.
I just bought an 2016 5.0 and will pull it with my Tundra .

[Delb]

Originally Posted by ichrisdr

Hello. If this topic has already been discussed please just point me in the right direction. So I have been contemplating downsizing my tow vehicle from a GMC Sierra full size with the 6.2L V-8 motor (420 horsepower and 460 lb-ft of torque) to a mid size pickup like the Ranger, Tacoma or Colorado. I'm towing an Escape 19. During the summer months I travel full time with my wife and dog around Colorado, Utah, Montana, Washington, Oregon, Idaho etc. Places with real mountains. We hike, SUP, mountain bike, explore towns, explore wilderness. With that in mind here is my list of pros and cons:

My gut tells me downsizing is a bad idea but I figured it would be fun to have the conversation. Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated. Feel free to add anything I may not have thought of. Thanks in advance.

Pros:
Mid size truck much easier getting around while not trailing the camper.
Theoretically mid size truck will have better fuel economy when not trailing the camper. I currently get 14mpg around town and 20mpg on the highway while not towing.
Something better offroad. My current truck is decent off road but I would get something like the Tacoma TRD Pro. Something that will make me more comfortable exploring off the beaten path.
Current truck easily pulls the camper and I feel secure knowing the truck is much heavier than the camper.
Cheaper maintenance costs

Cons
I'm concerned that I will get worse fuel economy with a mid size truck while towing the Escape 19.
My fuel range will be much shorter.
I'm concerned that coming from a full size truck I will feel like I just don't have enough power. With the full size I feel very comfortable merging onto highways or passing if I have to while towing. I usually drive 65mph even when the speed limit is 80mph while towing.
With the mid size truck I'll probably feel the trailer a lot more. Now I don't even know it's there.
Lower payload capacity although I don't think this will be an issue but something I need to consider.

I tow a 19' with a 2018 Tacoma TRD. The off road or TRD comes with a tow package but I am going to add an equalizer. The engine perfoms fine. The truck is rated for 6300 pounds of towing capacity. I use a Primus IQ brake controler that works very well. BUT, the automatic transmission in the Tacoma has a maddening trait that Toyota claims is "normal". On a slope it will down shift causing an increase in RPMs and within seconds shift back down and repeat. The shifting can be for example: cruising at 55 MPH and about 2200 RPM with a 3 or 4 degree hill it will down shift and run RPMS 4,000 for a few seconds then shift up, lower RPMs and repeat. Using the manual mode helps but it takes constant throttle control. Without a trailer, I love the Tacoma for its size and handling. With a trailer - not so much. I understand that Tundras doing something similar but not as pronounced. I once owned a 2005 Tundra, using it to tow all sorts of loads in my landscape business and loved it.

[Delb]

My Tacoma got 14.5 MPG towing our 19' from Amarillo Texas to Stephenville, TX. We get about 18 without a trailer with mixed in town and highway driving.

[cpaharley2008]

I think you will be disappointed with the smaller truck. Here are 2 recent pictures of our performance going out to pick up the trailer unhitched showing 21 mpg and a recent round trip to Osoyoos and return showing avg 15.5 towing over the entire trip. Notice the rpm's

[noblets]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

What is calculated is the weight with options: base weight plus the weights of each individual option. They apparently don't calculate a tongue weight with options.


Are you saying that the trailer was "several hundred pounds heavier" than the published base weight (1970 lbs), or "several hundred pounds heavier" than the optioned weight shown on the paperwork for your specific trailer? I assume that this was while still dry (not water or propane) and empty (none of your stuff).

Interesting discussion. So here's what I have:
* In the sales brochure, the empty weight is listed as 1970 pounds (17A)

* On the Certificate of Origin, the shipping weight is listed as 2455 pounds.
* The options we added that would explain that difference:
* 4 cf refrigerator
* Dual 6 volt batteries
* 160 watt solar panel
* Removable power cord (man, that thing is heavy!)
* Opening window over sink
* Power tongue jack (glad we got that)
* 1 exterior hatch
* Front storage box (also very happy with that)
* Some additional 12v/120 volt outlets
* Propane tanks filled
* There was no personal property in the trailer when we weighed it. The fresh water tank was empty.

We stopped at a public scale just west of Sumas, WA. I weighed

the trailer:
* Trailer only fully on the scale: 2760 pounds.

* Trailer main axle on the scale (front tongue jack not on the scale): 2360 pounds.
* If I'm doing this right, the tongue weight was 400 pounds
So, by my way of thinking, the trailer was about 300 pounds heavier than I expected.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by noblets

So here's what I have:
* In the sales brochure, the empty weight is listed as 1970 pounds (17A)

* On the Certificate of Origin, the shipping weight is listed as 2455 pounds.
...
* Trailer only fully on the scale: 2760 pounds.

* Trailer main axle on the scale (front tongue jack not on the scale): 2360 pounds.
* If I'm doing this right, the tongue weight was 400 pounds
So, by my way of thinking, the trailer was about 300 pounds heavier than I expected.

Thanks
I agree - your trailer is 300 pounds heavier than it should be, without any obvious explanation. While only about 10% off, that still seems like a significant error.

[Mark James]

Opinions will vary but I would not downsize when towing the 19, 21 or 5 TA. There will be times when you will appreciate the extra power.

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Thanks
I agree - your trailer is 300 pounds heavier than it should be, without any obvious explanation. While only about 10% off, that still seems like a significant error.

The only variable I see are the propane tanks. Full tanks may not be part of the shipping weight. But the trailer is still approx 250 pounds heavy. Hmmm ... I’m going to weigh mine when I pick it up in April.

[gbaglo]

What scale was used to weigh the trailer? Some are more accurate than others.

[noblets]

It was a public truck scale. Supposedly certified. I couldn't locate it again today on line.

[sailnbike]

Originally Posted by cvanzan

Used to tow our 21' with a '03 4Runner with 4.7L V8. It was capable, but I really wanted more room inside to carry bicycles, etc. Now using '18 Ford Transit with 3.5L EcoBoost. More than capable - it'll almost tow the 4Runner faster than the 4Runner can go on its own.

Not luxurious, but 3,000 lb load capacity.

Also, the Transit gets significantly better gas mileage than the 4Runner.


Attachment 36812

Attachment 36813

I have been considering a Transit to tow my 19. Do you have the Heavy Duty Tow package as it is difficult to find used ones with it. It appears that you have the long wheel base. Can you offer any insight into towing with the regular wheelbase. Thanks

[cvanzan]

Originally Posted by sailnbike

I have been considering a Transit to tow my 19. Do you have the Heavy Duty Tow package as it is difficult to find used ones with it. It appears that you have the long wheel base. Can you offer any insight into towing with the regular wheelbase. Thanks

Our Transit 8 passenger wagon is the regular (130") wheelbase and tows very straight. When passing or being passed by large trucks or in high wind conditions I have not encountered any sphincter tightening moments.

Our Transit has all of the factory tow and controller options. It's nice to be able to adjust the braking force on the fly, plus from reading the Ford Transit forum, there may be problems trying to add an aftermarket brake controller.

I added airbags to make sure the headlights wouldn't shine too far up when towing at night, however it didn't seem to alter the handling of the combo in any way.

I considered using a WDH, but it's not recommended by Ford. I suspect that there would be some improvement in stability with a WDH, but IMHO it really isn't needed.

The only complaint is that this rig is built to carry 3000 pounds and we are carrying less than a net of 300 pounds. The springs, tire pressures and shocks make for a rather stiff ride. On the other hand there is a surplus of power and the brakes are fantastic.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cvanzan

I considered using a WDH, but it's not recommended by Ford. I suspect that there would be some improvement in stability with a WDH, but IMHO it really isn't needed.

The only complaint is that this rig is built to carry 3000 pounds and we are carrying less than a net of 300 pounds. The springs, tire pressures and shocks make for a rather stiff ride.

The fundamental function of a weight-distributing hitch system is to reduce the tug's rear axle load (increasing front axle and trailer axle loads in the process) - this is the opposite of what this rig needs, since the rear suspension is already not loaded enough to function as intended.

What capacity range of Transit is this: 150, 250, or 350? I'm guessing 150.

[cvanzan]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The fundamental function of a weight-distributing hitch system is to reduce the tug's rear axle load (increasing front axle and trailer axle loads in the process) - this is the opposite of what this rig needs, since the rear suspension is already not loaded enough to function as intended.

What capacity range of Transit is this: 150, 250, or 350? I'm guessing 150.

It's a 150. I totally agree with you regarding a WDH's primary purpose and that's another reason why I never installed the E2 WDH that we used with the 4Runner.