PIN Weight — 1350 enough

[shlm2umac]

Hi, I think I’m closing in on the deal, finally, and I’ll have my truck and be on my way. Just one question left, I think. The pin weight on the truck I’m purchasing is 1350 lbs. I’ll be pulling a 5.0TA. Does that seem like enough? I’ll be pulling my 5th wheel from Washington state to Austin, Texas at the beginning of the Spring (late March early April), so headwinds, maybe. There will be two people weighing just over 300 lbs combined and a dog at 50 lbs. Both of us will be taking a bag each weighing 50 lbs together, I’ll likely empty the propane tanks which the previous owner kindly filled up for us, and put only blankets, sheets and pillows for the beds to sleep. We’ll make food daily or eat out if necessary, won’t be driving more than 400 miles per day for 5 days and just over, so last day will be slightly more. But I think that’s it. Not sure if the gas will count, but it’s a 26 gallon tank.

Your help is always appreciated.

Marjorie

[C&G in FL]

Marjorie, trucks do not have a pin weight. They have a cargo capacity which is listed on the pillar at the back of the driver’s door. The pin weight of the trailer snd other cargo in the truck cannot exceed the cargo capacity. The 5.0 pin weight is in the vicinity of 650 -750 lbs. Assuming it is 750 lbs, subtracted from 1,350 lbs, would leave you 600 lbs more you can put in the truck. That includes passengers, and other items add up. Any accessories added to the truck, included the hitch, would have to be subtracted from whatever weight you have left. What you put in the trailer or the trucks fuel tank doesn’t matter. The cargo capacity assumes a full tank.

[Perry Butler]

Your 1350# CCC (cargo carrying capacity) is definitely on the low side. Our 2015 F150 XLT had a CCC of 1970#'s. Our 2019 F150 Lariat has a CCC of 1730#'s, so you have 400#'s less capacity than our 2019 F150 . You're always carrying more weight than you think.

You also have to add anything you put in the storage area above the LP tanks, the small storage area on the left where the switches are to raise and lower your campers front legs, and all items you have in the bed area (do not include the mattress. Total them up and divide by 2 for more weight on your pin (you divide by two because that weight is between the pin and the campers axles).

Food for thought,

Perry

[shlm2umac]

This is the response I got from the person I’m hoping to purchase the truck from (see below). I know he has an interest to sell his truck, but I feel like he’s being up front with me. Still I’m not competent enough to figure this out on my own. Is anyone towing with a truck with a cargo capacity of 1351? Thank you, Marjorie

“ I understand your concern, the issue of weight is important but you also have to understand how weight transfers to the hitch. It’s not a direct 1:1 transfer. So adding 100 lbs to the trailer doesn’t mean 100lbs is going to transfer to the pin, only a couple of lbs will. There’s math that can be done to account for it. Ive got a spreadsheet that I’ve run all the numbers on and I’m confident in the truck.”

[C&G in FL]

The only way to determine how much weight is being transferred to the trailer is to connect the trailer to the truck itself onto a certified scale with the trailer’s wheels not on the scale and get the weight. Then disconnect the trailer and weight the truck alone. The difference is the pin weight. The explanation about weight transfer the seller gave you, in my opinion, is BS. What did he tow with it? What knowledge does he have of the 5.0?

While I tried to imply it in my earlier post and hoped you would read between the lines, I will come out and say it. I do not think you will be happy with the restrictions that having a cargo capacity of only 1350 lbs with a 5.0. With what you stated in your original post about passengers, dogs, and luggage, with a pin weight estimated at 750 lbs and even the lightest 5th wheel hitch, you will be close if not over the maximum cargo capacity. Find a truck that better suits your needs.

[7Gentex]

Ask for a pic of the "Tire Loading Sticker" from the specific truck you are considering. It is on the driver's door pillar. That will tell you the rated cargo capacity for that specific vehicle. (This value assumes a full fuel tank)

That value, less the 5.0 pin weight of 650 to 750 (per others) or so will show what you have left for people (including the driver) and gear.

Every option on a truck (just about) lowers the payload capacity. Most of what you see advertised is the "max payload" on that unicorn unit / no option truck that nobody buys..............

[kavm]

Our payload is about 1350 lbs. If we recall right - you have to look at
- The weight that 5.0 TA will put on the truck (the feedback was a wide range from 700-850 lbs.)
- Weight of the passengers and cargo. I counted 450 in your list. Propane sits in the camper, so its weight part of the camper pin weight.
- Weight of the hitch you have installed on the truck (this can exceed 100 lbs, depending upon the hitch)
- Anything else that was added to the truck, e.g. tonneau, if that was added earlier. If tonneau was bought with the truck, its weight is already factored in the payload.

So, you have to make sure that all of the above does not exceed 1350. The right way is to check all this out on the scale. We have not but we have lighter weights on our side - as it just me, my wife (about 280 lbs) + 20 lbs of cargo in the truck aside from the pin weight from 5.0TA. We specifically went with Andersen hitch to limit the hitch weight.

[splitting_lanes]

Our GMC Canyons payload is about 1350 and it works well for us towing our 5.0

[MrLynn]

Interesting. We are 'bumper-pulling' our 21C with our 2013 Ford Expedition. The max cargo weight is only 1,499 lbs. Our hitch weight is c. 600—we have an E2 Fastway WD hitch; don't know how that affects actual hitch weight, or if it does. Add in two of us at c. 300, and that leaves only c. 600 lbs for 'stuff'; we do tend to 'travel heavy', but whether 600 lbs worth I don't know.

The question always is: how much 'stuff' can go in the trailer? I've moved all the 'trailering stuff' and personal luggage into the trailer, but my toolbox, camping gear, like the heavy Clam, a folding table, and bins of miscellany, etc. stay in the truck. Probably close to overloading, but who's counting?

If your TV rear is sagging, move more to the trailer, distributing it equally front and back.

[kavm]

The pin weight of 5.0TA is higher than 21C. So, the payload is a bigger consideration.

[kavm]

I looked up our numbers from when we bought the truck in 2021 -

• Driver plus passenger(s) weight - 280 lbs
• Pin weight - 800 lbs. 630 lbs is the nominal weight. A table I have seen on the forum (can’t find the link seemed to suggest that real pin weight with loaded camper seems to be in 750-800 lbs ranges, with some reporting a higher number. So, I estimated 800 lbs to not underestimate my need significantly.
• Hitch weight - 100 lbs. This can vary widely and approach 300 lbs, depending upon hitch. We needed to be at the lighter end for payload reasons. So, we went with Andersen Ultimate on rails. The rails are about 40-50 lbs, and Andersen Ultimate is 35 lbs. Chains are extra.

Rounding it out - we estimated 1200 lbs as our lowest payload target.

Your numbers are a bit higher but likely still close if you load as much of your gear into the camper as possible.

[Centex]

Just FYI / FWIW for folks contributing to this thread....

I have spoken with the OP (Marjorie) and among the IMO several pertinent facts that has revealed is that the 5.0TA Majorie now owns is a 2015 Generation 1 model. Marjorie also has the 'traditional' Reese 5th wheel hitch and rails removed from the previous owner's truck (but not the rail mounting hardware from under the bed).

The ETI brochure for that model is attached.

We all (including Marjorie, now) know that pin weight and trailer loaded weight vary depending on options, what we carry in our trailer, and where that stuff is located in our trailer. Marjorie does not have the benefit of any actual scale-weights for her trailer at this time.

Having said that, IMO it's useful for estimating purposes to note that ETI's 'base specs' for the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 (current brochure) 5.0TA reveal

• Lower base total dry weight (3700# vs 3910#)
• Lower base pin weight (600# vs 646#)
• Higher King Pin Height (47" - 49-1/2" vs 42-3/4" - 45-1/4") which goes to some truck clearance questions mentioned by Marjorie in a different post / thread

While none of those differences are earth-shattering, and they are only manufacturer published base specs, IMO the trend works to Majorie's benefit.

Further and IMO also pertinent to the situation, I now understand that Marjorie's planned use of her trailer is as a 'fixed-base' living place, not as a frequently towed 'recreational' vehicle. She anticipates towing it from WA to TX, then in the future only infrequently relocating the trailer to other job-related locations for use again as a 'fixed-base' living place.

I realize that many comments have been offered by folks lacking the full context / background I'm now taking the liberty of sharing. But having more complete info (more than I've outlined above) I'm advising Marjorie that she should not worry, at least from a weight standpoint (total and pin), about her planned trek from WA to Austin with the specific 2017 Ram 1500 4x4 she is considering.

Your opinions may differ, and that's fine, but please consider the info I've posted in your replies to Marjorie. IMO context is everything and there's potential harm in causing a person undue worry relating to their specific situation which may legitimately differ from our own.

Just for your consideration as we all seek to give Majorie the best guidance we can for her situation.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by kavm

The pin weight of 5.0TA is higher than 21C. So, the payload is a bigger consideration.

True, but the pin/hitch takes space in the box and negates the use of a cap, so your truck isn’t as likely to have a bunch of heavy stuff in the bed in addition to the pin weight.

[iamunique127]

Originally Posted by Centex

Just FYI / FWIW for folks contributing to this thread....

I have spoken with the OP (Marjorie) and among the IMO several pertinent facts that has revealed is that the 5.0TA Majorie now owns is a 2015 Generation 1 model. Marjorie also has the 'traditional' Reese 5th wheel hitch and rails removed from the previous owner's truck (but not the rail mounting hardware from under the bed).

The ETI brochure for that model is attached.

We all (including Marjorie, now) know that pin weight and trailer loaded weight vary depending on options, what we carry in our trailer, and where that stuff is located in our trailer. Marjorie does not have the benefit of any actual scale-weights for her trailer at this time.

Having said that, IMO it's useful for estimating purposes to note that ETI's 'base specs' for the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 (current brochure) 5.0TA reveal

• Lower base total dry weight (3700# vs 3910#)
• Lower base pin weight (600# vs 646#)
• Higher King Pin Height (47" - 49-1/2" vs 42-3/4" - 45-1/4") which goes to some truck clearance questions mentioned by Marjorie in a different post / thread

While none of those differences are earth-shattering, and they are only manufacturer published base specs, IMO the trend works to Majorie's benefit.

Further and IMO also pertinent to the situation, I now understand that Marjorie's planned use of her trailer is as a 'fixed-base' living place, not as a frequently towed 'recreational' vehicle. She anticipates towing it from WA to TX, then in the future only infrequently relocating the trailer to other job-related locations for use again as a 'fixed-base' living place.

I realize that many comments have been offered by folks lacking the full context / background I'm now taking the liberty of sharing. But having more complete info (more than I've outlined above) I'm advising Marjorie that she should not worry, at least from a weight standpoint (total and pin), about her planned trek from WA to Austin with the specific 2017 Ram 1500 4x4 she is considering.

Your opinions may differ, and that's fine, but please consider the info I've posted in your replies to Marjorie. IMO context is everything and there's potential harm in causing a person undue worry relating to their specific situation which may legitimately differ from our own.

Just for your consideration as we all seek to give Majorie the best guidance we can for her situation.

As always from you, Alan, a well considered and objective opinion full of good adivice.

[emers382]

Yes Alan as Lyle has said good advice just as you gave me when I realised the payload on my new 2022 F150 was over 100lbs less than the 2015. I had considered getting an Andersen hitch however your advice persuaded me to keep my B&W Patriot, now ten years old used in three trucks.

I am very careful with loading, yes it's inconvenient having our outside chairs secured in the dinette, so the truck only carries two passengers plus dog, and in the bed only a small aluminium ladder and the patio mat. We have never missed losing bed space due to towing the 5.0 & 5.0TA as we tend not to haul a lot of items we rarely use. I've never yet filled all the storage space in either trailer.

[DanandDaphne]

Good information Centex, and I would agree with your summary. I was assuming she had a 2020 5.0 from her user info under her name. But I think she will be fine in either case but especially with how she is planning to use the truck/trailer.

As truck cargo capacity has been discussed regarding the 5.0 many times here before we know there are users who have much lower capacities than 1350 and are getting along fine. One user is definitely exceeding their capacity (I won't name names) but don't seem worried about it. We haven't ever been weighed at DOT weight and check stations, if the sign says all vehicles towing trailers must stop we pull in but they have always waved us on thru.

Has anybody here ever been weighed?

[salmo7000]

I think based on the intended use of the truck/trailer combination, all is good with 1,350 lbs of payload, assuming the weight of the hitch is under 100 lbs.

That said, my truck’s payload is 1,390 lbs, and I wasn’t comfortable pushing the envelope with the 2018 5.0TA I was planning to buy. Folks chimed in with suggestions to lighten the pin with a full water tank, loading more stuff in the rear of the trailer, never traveling with full gray or black tanks, etc… and I just decided I didn’t want to have to worry about all that stuff. So I bought a 19 instead and never looked back.

Part of this decision is how much risk (or pushing the envelope, so to speak) one is willing to assume. I’ve become more of a nervous nellie as I’ve gotten older, plus I want my truck to last a long time. Exceeding its payload, even by just a little, is not something I want to have to think about, nor do I want to spend time getting everything weighed before every trip so I know for sure I’m under.

But heck, there are more than a handful of folks here who don’t seem to worry about payload, they tow their 5.0 TAs all over the place, and their trucks appear to be doing fine.

So I guess I’d just hitch up, fill the freshwater tank, load stuff in the back, and tow the trailer home! I think it will go great.

[C&G in FL]

I’m not sure that filling the water tank on a 5.0TA is going to lighten the pin load all that much. On a shorter trailer with a single axle the added weight of water might make a big difference but the physics involved given that the water tank is @ 5 feet (1.5 m) behind the wheels (fulcrum) and the load being lifted is @ 15 feet (5 m) in front of the fulcrum is going to reduce the lever effect as a full water tank a @ 8.3 pounds (3.7 kg) is going to have a reduced effect on the leverage, also given the fact that the fulcrum is the rearmost axle.

[RangerMan]

I've never paid a lot of attention to my GVW. When my aux fuel tank is full (100gal) I am routinely about 500lb over my labeled weight. Been doing it for years to no ill effect. My truck is 2002 F250. Just turned 420K.

Let me hasten to add that I am NOT advocating folks do this, just added my experience.

[iamunique127]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I’m not sure that filling the water tank on a 5.0TA is going to lighten the pin load all that much. On a shorter trailer with a single axle the added weight of water might make a big difference but the physics involved given that the water tank is @ 5 feet (1.5 m) behind the wheels (fulcrum) and the load being lifted is @ 15 feet (5 m) in front of the fulcrum is going to reduce the lever effect as a full water tank a @ 8.3 pounds (3.7 kg) is going to have a reduced effect on the leverage, also given the fact that the fulcrum is the rearmost axle.

And if the fresh water tank is 28 gallons it would weigh 232 lb. Although that 28 gal. is just from memory and may not be totally correct.