Tow vehicles are too expensive

[Michael.Chadwick]

We tow our 5.0 with a Dodge Ram with the 5.7 hemi......tows great. We bought a used one with about 40,000 miles in great shape for about $20,000

[Johnspierce]

Right now is a bad time to buy anything. Waiting a few months might make a huge difference. It's a convergence of things, but in summary:

- There's a worldwide silicon chip shortage. All the major manufacturers are having problems supplying new cars/trucks to dealers waiting on essential chips.
- Coming out of Covid, there is a huge demand for vehicles after a year of depressed sales while people "stayed at home"
- Because there's a shortage of 2021 model cars/trucks, used car/truck prices are going through the roof.

There are literally thousands of mid-size and full-size trucks sitting in lots waiting for these chips for completion. I would say it's very likely when the chips start rolling in you will see those thousands of vehicles get put on the market quickly and discounted because we are reaching the end-of-the-year cycle for 2021 vehicles. Usually in May/June manufacturers are ramping up their production lines for 2022 vehicles. I'm going to make a wild-ass guess in July or August we are going to see deep discounting for 2021 vehicles and "adjustments" in pricing for used vehicles.

For now, it's tough to find what you want new and used vehicles are overpriced.

To the original poster: I noticed you said you just recently put the deposit down on a new Escape, so you are looking at 2022 delivery anyway and it would behoove you to wait out the market as long as you can for either a new or used tow vehicle.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/busin...ply/index.html

[escape artist]

Hi: Johnspierce... You're right... It's no time to buy "When the chips are down". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[saguarocat]

Originally Posted by brroberts

That sounds pretty high. It better be very loaded.

The linked Ranger listing is very comparable to our 2020 Ranger XLT SCab, the biggest difference is it is a SCrew and has the FX4 package. We share the 302a and towing packages and the locking differential. We have the Chrome package instead of the Sport Package and we have the Tech Package.

We ordered our Ranger in late July 2020 and took delivery in October. There were no SCabs to be had between NoCal, So. Oregon and Phoenix that time of year. Plenty of SCrews. BTW they stopped taking factory orders shortly after in late August to retool for the 2021 model year.

Likewise, we purchased a RAV in middle 2019 as our grocery-getter. The internet pricing for both purchases came _nowhere_ near the Costco Auto Program discount. With the program we paid $700 under invoice on the Ranger. Furthermore, we said upfront to no dealer add-ons: no nitro, no etching, no tinting, etc and the dealer honored our request.
One thing the dealers did not budge on was the Documentation Fee. As I understand it, the fee depends on your area or in California is capped by law. In northern NV the fee is $400. In CA I believe it is capped at $80.
Price: 35,793 + DocFee: 399.50 + Trailer Brake: 500 (w install) & MaintPlan: 2225 = 38917.50 then comes the taxes and licensing. The maintenance plan was my decision, not the dealer's requirement.

And as an aside, the SCabs come with a 6' bed while the SCrews have a 5.5' bed.

[brroberts]

I ordered in March an xlt super cab 2wd with trailer tow, spray in bed liner, brake controller, reverse sensor, 110 outlet, and locking diff for $29,214.00. I got XLT instead of XL because to get what I wanted there was no $’s difference. So even with super cab and 4wd, 39k sounds expensive to me.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Yeah I do worry about the interior size. Mainly because we haven't done much camping. I've done a fair amount before I met my wife but it was usually tent camping with my dog or meeting up with my parents and staying with them in their 5th wheel. We do plan on going camping quite a bit this year and will be staying in state park cabins and also meeting up with my parents staying with them in their 5th wheel.

Ive inquired about a 21ne through the escape ambassador program and it's close to us in the same city. Plan on calling the ambassador tomorrow so crossing fingers they will let us look inside. If it feels too small I don't really think we have many other options. Not really interested in pulling a larger stick trailer.

As for the f150 yes we are leaning towards it instead of the ranger. Mainly because I hadn't really give enough thought to transporting our large dog. I had pictured a dog bed and harness in the back of the truck under canopy with back window open so he felt like he was still able to be with us. But the more I think about it the more I think that's unsafe and inconvenient. Too many hard surfaces that he will bump into and in the summer we would have to remove canopy and use a kennel. It still rains in the summer in the pnw so doesn't sound doable. With the f150 he can ride laying on the floor in front of kids carseats.

As John in Santa Cruz says an F-150 can cost not $100K but close to $75K. I told the Ford dealer I wanted an F-150 for one thing - TOWING. I got an XLT, then added the towing mirrors myself. No leather seats, no "self driving electronics", no blind spot monitoring, etc. I put the back seats up so my dog can ride in the back. The back seat is a split seat so you could put up the single seat to give your dog more room, and leave the double seat down for the kid seats. I would never let my dog ride in the bed of my truck for the reasons you state. When I see people doing that I want to call Animal Control. Same with dogs with their heads out a window or looking around the cab when in the bed. Have people looked at their windshield and seen the splattered bugs or road debris that hits their windshield? How would they like a bug or debris in their dog's eye!

[AndNeitherDoI]

For those who aren't quite up to speed on the current problem with used vehicles, Manheim Used Vehicle Index is at a record high in April 2021. "The index, which updates mid-month, rose by 6.8% in the first 15 days of April from the final March figure and jumped 52% from the same period a year ago to a level of 191.4."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...?sref=d8kzATyo

Ford is idling factories as well.
"April 21: The weeks of May 3 and May 10, automaker will shutter plants in Chicago, Michigan and Kansas City that produce the Ford Explorer, the Mustang sports car and the F-150 pickup, Ford’s biggest moneymaker. "
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chip-...230839840.html

[MichaelS78]

Wow well that's not good. Could mean prices stay high for quite awhile longer. I was hoping to get a tow vehicle late this year but looks like I may need to wait until next fall. Although that would mean purchasing a tow vehicle right before a possible trailer pickup. Which I would rather avoid.

[John in Santa Cruz]

our medium sized dog (a short hair border collie variant known as a McNab) rides in a largish crate that just barely fits on the passenger side half back seat of our "SuperCab" F250 superduty (this is the cab-and-a-half version, not the full double cab). to get the large crate in there requires moving the passenger front seat forward some. the bigger crate gives him enough room to turn around, look out the window, and so forth, otherwise he's awful on long trips. as he's getting on in years, we use a doggie ramp to help him load, and someone has to stand there and block the front seat or he'll divert and jump in the front, and promptly sit up on the drivers seat like HE'S going to do the driving. he was our son's dog we had to adopt when said son moved to the UK for a few years for a geology post-doc at Oxford.

we used to just put a dog bed down on the passenger half of the short back seat, but he'd periodically try and jump over the center armrest to join us in the front seat, sometimes quite unexpectedly, and that can get pretty dangerous to have a 50 lb dog jump on your lap while piloting a 9000 lb truck towing a 4500 lb trailer.

[MichaelS78]

Our 100lb rottweiler/german shepherd mix is pretty good about staying in place but he does love to turn around in circles growling at cars unless we are on the highway. No idea why he only does it at slower speeds. He just lays down and sleeps once on the highway. I used to harness him in and carabineer to a latch before we had kids but I don't have the energy anymore.

[Randy in Maine]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Wow well that's not good. Could mean prices stay high for quite awhile longer. I was hoping to get a tow vehicle late this year but looks like I may need to wait until next fall. Although that would mean purchasing a tow vehicle right before a possible trailer pickup. Which I would rather avoid.

Suggestion: These days people change their mind due to a lot of reasons and need to change vehicles. The last time I bought a truck (that I still have) , I let the shop that serviced my work trucks and the guy who services my personal cars know what I was looking for. Both of those shops see all sorts of vehicles every day. A couple of months later, one of the shops called me and told me they had nice one that would be for sale if I was interested in it. Nice clean reliable vehicles are worth looking for and are worth paying more for.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Randy in Maine

I let the shop that serviced my work trucks and the guy who services my personal cars know what I was looking for.

This is a good idea.

[MichaelS78]

I like this idea. But first I need a shop I trust. I was using one with good Yelp reviews but I feel like he's too busy because of the good Yelp reviews and lots of customers. There were things I think he could have recommended we do while he was already doing a tuneup that I learned about later on my own clean out throttle body, do valve adjustments. I need to start looking for a new shop I think.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

My wife, German Shepherd (76 lbs), and I looked at a 19.

I tell you the truth, I was puzzling mightily as to how your wife would be named German Shepherd and why you would tell your wife's weight to the world, until I thought to read the next sentence...

No way were the 3 of us going to fit.

[sofmerc]

I have the original window sticker of my F150 build. It was special order build so I'm not sure how close to sticker price they paid. Truck is a 2016 and price was $65,469.08, It was shipped to Canada ,and not for sale in US. Not sure if window sticker is USD or Canadian....

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by Mike G

I tell you the truth, I was puzzling mightily as to how your wife would be named German Shepherd and why you would tell your wife's weight to the world, until I thought to read the next sentence...

If my wife weighed 76 lbs, she'd be a child! She used to weigh 100lbs, however we all get older and heavier. Maybe she's 130, at least I don't tell that to the world.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by sofmerc

I have the original window sticker of my F150 build. It was special order build so I'm not sure how close to sticker price they paid. Truck is a 2016 and price was $65,469.08, It was shipped to Canada ,and not for sale in US. Not sure if window sticker is USD or Canadian....

The original USA window sticker for my 2020 F-150XLT was $55,385, before the ridiculous dealer add-ons. 3.5L Ecoboost is a $2595 option. Max Trailer Tow Package is a $1295 option. There were other options, all of which were included in the $55,385 sticker price. I paid $42,126.

I looked at an F-150 Lariat. Sticker was over $60K, and the Lariats weren't being deeply discounted. My local Ford dealer (not Team Ford in Vegas) had 2 used 2018 F-150's from Canada. Corrosion everywhere underneath. Dealer wanted more for those 2 used trucks than I paid new at Team Ford.

I stopped buying used vehicles years ago, because you don't know what you are getting. You don't know how the vehicle has been treated. Has the vehicle been in sub-freezing temperatures where the owner starts the vehicle up in the morning at 20 degrees and immediately drives at 3000RPM? If so the internal engine and transmission parts are just grinding metal because the different metals haven't had time to stabilize, and the oil isn't properly circulating. I don't see that getting the car inspected by a mechanic is going to show any issues inside the engine, transmission, or gear boxes. For example, Toyota recommends driving my 4Runner in 4WD for at least 10 miles once a month to circulate the fluid. How does a buyer of my 4runner know I did that! To get a general idea of the condition of an engine a mechanic has to do a compression test. Do all cylinders have generally about the same compression, or are one or
more cylinders lower than the others. Who knows of a mechanic that does a compression test when inspecting a car for a client! What mechanic sends an engine oil sample to a lab for metal testing so the mechanic can tell what metal is in the oil at higher quantities than should be? It's like going to a doctor for an annual physical, and the doctor not doing blood work. Many people have luck with used vehicles. I say "luck" because you don't know for certain what you are buying unless you personally know the owner, and how the owner treated the vehicle.

Oops. We are a little off-topic for this thread!

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

The original USA window sticker for my 2020 F-150XLT was $55,385, before the ridiculous dealer add-ons. 3.5L Ecoboost is a $2595 option. Max Trailer Tow Package is a $1295 option. There were other options, all of which were included in the $55,385 sticker price. I paid $42,126.

I looked at an F-150 Lariat. Sticker was over $60K, and the Lariats weren't being deeply discounted. My local Ford dealer (not Team Ford in Vegas) had 2 used 2018 F-150's from Canada. Corrosion everywhere underneath. Dealer wanted more for those 2 used trucks than I paid new at Team Ford.

I stopped buying used vehicles years ago, because you don't know what you are getting. You don't know how the vehicle has been treated. Has the vehicle been in sub-freezing temperatures where the owner starts the vehicle up in the morning at 20 degrees and immediately drives at 3000RPM? If so the internal engine and transmission parts are just grinding metal because the different metals haven't had time to stabilize, and the oil isn't properly circulating. I don't see that getting the car inspected by a mechanic is going to show any issues inside the engine, transmission, or gear boxes. For example, Toyota recommends driving my 4Runner in 4WD for at least 10 miles once a month to circulate the fluid. How does a buyer of my 4runner know I did that! To get a general idea of the condition of an engine a mechanic has to do a compression test. Do all cylinders have generally about the same compression, or are one or
more cylinders lower than the others. Who knows of a mechanic that does a compression test when inspecting a car for a client! What mechanic sends an engine oil sample to a lab for metal testing so the mechanic can tell what metal is in the oil at higher quantities than should be? It's like going to a doctor for an annual physical, and the doctor not doing blood work. Many people have luck with used vehicles. I say "luck" because you don't know for certain what you are buying unless you personally know the owner, and how the owner treated the vehicle.

Oops. We are a little off-topic for this thread!

I don't think it's off topic, its really useful discussion. I too wonder where vehicles from the winter salt states end up. Are they always sold in the same states that salt the road, where a buyer always looks under them. Or are they sometimes shipped to other states for unsuspecting buyers? It's not hard to look under a vehicle but I admit I didn't do it when buying my element used from a dealership.

As for compression tests I'm shocked that they don't do this when getting a used car inspection at a mechanic. The youtube videos I've watched make it look fairly easy.

Testing oil for metal content also seems pretty common sense and not sure why a mechanic shop wouldn't have the proper equipment. Seems like an important part of vehicle repair and maintenance. Can an owner send a sample on their into a lab? It would be too slow when buying used but still good to know for ones own peace of mind about the condition of their vehicle.

I too am slowly shifting towards buying new. Lots of info being provided on here about how F150s aren't actually that much new. I think I could justify $40k if it was my commuter too. Just can't justify that cost if it's a 3rd vehicle for trips and home depot runs only.

Back on the topic of taking a used truck in for an inspection, I would love to learn what a mechanic actually does. Any useful links to info about to expect? Anything that you have to ask for extra that's highly recommended? Like a compression test?

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I stopped buying used vehicles years ago, because you don't know what you are getting. You don't know how the vehicle has been treated. Has the vehicle been in sub-freezing temperatures where the owner starts the vehicle up in the morning at 20 degrees and immediately drives at 3000RPM? If so the internal engine and transmission parts are just grinding metal because the different metals haven't had time to stabilize, and the oil isn't properly circulating. I don't see that getting the car inspected by a mechanic is going to show any issues inside the engine, transmission, or gear boxes. For example, Toyota recommends driving my 4Runner in 4WD for at least 10 miles once a month to circulate the fluid. How does a buyer of my 4runner know I did that! To get a general idea of the condition of an engine a mechanic has to do a compression test. Do all cylinders have generally about the same compression, or are one or
more cylinders lower than the others. Who knows of a mechanic that does a compression test when inspecting a car for a client! What mechanic sends an engine oil sample to a lab for metal testing so the mechanic can tell what metal is in the oil at higher quantities than should be? It's like going to a doctor for an annual physical, and the doctor not doing blood work. Many people have luck with used vehicles. I say "luck" because you don't know for certain what you are buying unless you personally know the owner, and how the owner treated the vehicle.

Oops. We are a little off-topic for this thread!

Actually there is a tool that will fill in a lot of those blanks. The Carfax! I've bought my last four vehicles as used and relied very heavily on the carfax info to tell me how meticulous the owner was about oil changes, how many times the dealer had performed warranty work and if the vehicle had been wrecked.

I'll use my truck as an example. My truck was a 2014 model, it was sold by a Ford dealer in Ft Worth and first titled in the spring of 2015 . The owner took the truck back every 6 mos or so to the original Ford dealer they purchased the vehicle from to do every oil change except one that a local oil change shop performed. The rear diff also had the oil changed by the same ford dealer as part of an oil change event at around the 60k mile mark. Only one warranty event occurred on the truck (some minor electrical complaint) and no wrecks were ever recorded. All of this info was in the carfax that the dealer provided a free link to in their ad.

Now does this mean the truck wasn't abused? No certainly not. However the strict adherence to taking the truck back into the dealer and the lack of wrecks tells me that it was most likely owned by an older person and that they were fairly meticulous about having the truck serviced on time. I also know it spent its life here in the south and wasn't exposed to northern cold and possible corrosive road environments.

I took the opposite track with my vehicles as you dlakeman. I bought new cars for the first 25 yrs or so of my driving life but I got tired of taking the depreciation hit and started buying good quality used vehicles. Maybe I've been lucky, but there's no doubt I've saved a ton of money over buying new. However I'm very mechanically inclined and capable of doing most of my own service so anything short of a transmission or engine failure would be handled here in my own garage.

To the OP if you're going to buy used, then use the carfax to isolate vehicles that may be a problem from those with good backgrounds. Looks for those with only one or two owners. If they've changed hands a lot then that's a red flag. If they've had a lot of warranty work or wrecks or infrequent oil changes then keep looking. If you're worried about vehicles from certain parts of the country then the carfax will show you the title history and inspection history too so you'll know where that car was operating primarily. I personally avoided anything that had been titled in the northeast and also in the Houston area (due to the flood events and warnings about buying flood salvaged cars) and there were quite a few of those that show up here in the DFW area.

Unfortunately some vehicles will have very meticulous oil changes performed by the owners themselves but this will not show up in the carfax. I'd just pass unless the owner can provide receipts showing how well they've cared for the car. I personally change all of my own oil, so I'll be one of those having to show how well I take care of my vehicles when the time comes to sell.

[MichaelS78]

Ok that's good to know. When I bought my used element over 10 years ago I don't think they had Carfax yet or at least I was not aware of it. I've become aware over the years but didn't realize it had so much info. I too change my own oil but will start keeping better records. I keep my vehicles a long time but still want to be able to sell if I need to.