Tow vehicles are too expensive

[kavm]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Wow I was not aware dealers could raise the price that much. I wonder what the out the door price ends up? Maybe closer to $80k?

Out the door price for that truck would be about 55K... Either that price is a website error or there is a scam on.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Wow I was not aware dealers could raise the price that much. I wonder what the out the door price ends up? Maybe closer to $80k?

Oh yeah they will mark up the used ones too. My used F150 was internet advertised at $16999 on this particular local Ford dealers website. I called and verified the price and that the vehicle was sitting on the lot. I went up there and took it for a test drive. We went in sat down and he gave me the price.... nearly $22k. I asked him what the hell happened to $16999. Oh well window security etching, tinted windows, paint protection, N2 filled tires, etc etc etc.

My response. I'm not taking any of that garbage take it all off and I'll give you $16k flat. It took 2hrs and me finally walking out before they finally realized I wasn't leaving with it for more than $16k and they relented.

It's pretty much standard now for dealers to try and force extras onto buyers. If you find a dealer not doing that it'd be highly unusual.

[kavm]

There is more pricing flexibility in a used vehicle price. In the new vehicle - if you are paying more than MSRP, you are not paying attention. In some rare situation where the demand for the vehicle exceeds supply by a large amount - the dealer can charge an availability premium.

There is a shortage with 2021 F150 due to the chip and other supply issues. But, that cannot command a 32/35K premium. If it does, I would be happy to sell my truck for $35K above what I paid

[oldwave]

it seems more and more the default dealer philosophy is scaming the customer and high pressure pysops techniques. As soon as those tools come out, run out the door as it may be indicative of quality of service in the whole operation. Any dealer that pulls that stuff is immediately off the list forever. Once many years ago I went to a dealer to look at a used car and asked the sales guy for an out the door price. He wouldn't give me one, so as we walked out he shouted you weren't going to buy the car anyway. Since then I bought 6 or 7 cars from their competitor . I guess he showed me !

Everywhere we turn in modern society somebody is trying scam us. Its exhausting.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by oldwave

it seems more and more the default dealer philosophy is scaming the customer and high pressure pysops techniques. As soon as those tools come out, run out the door as it may be indicative of quality of service in the whole operation. Any dealer that pulls that stuff is immediately off the list forever. Once many years ago I went to a dealer to look at a used car and asked the sales guy for an out the door price. He wouldn't give me one, so as we walked out he shouted you weren't going to buy the car anyway. Since then I bought 6 or 7 cars from their competitor . I guess he showed me !

Everywhere we turn in modern society somebody is trying scam us. Its exhausting.

I find exactly the opposite at car dealers nowadays. Knowledge is power. The internet has made it possible to do exhaustive research on a vehicle, even finding out exactly what the dealer paid for the vehicle (at least with new vehicles), what the maker is paying them to floor it monthly, etc.

Many years ago (1990ish) when I got out of the military and needed a job, I reluctantly took one selling cars. I only did it for about 8 months but it was revealing. There was no internet to go look up all the numbers on a vehicle. There was the sticker of course, but buyers could only guess about the actual cost and dealer profit. Most buyers were at the mercy of the dealer, and I personally found during my brief stint selling cars that most of the dealers were just plain crooked.

I don't see that anymore. Buying a vehicle at a dealer is a much more straightforward process. Nowadays, most buyers (including myself) are armed with a ton of info, and most of the mystery behind how the vehicle is priced is pretty much gone. In the case of the last two vehicles I got at a dealer, I was inside the dealership for no more than 30 minutes each, because I'd negotiated the whole deal online beforehand. All that remained was to sign the papers. The folks who get taken nowadays are those who just show up cold on a dealer lot.

Lastly, relating to another post, I cannot imagine ever paying over MSRP - or even AT MSRP, for a vehicle. If market conditions are such that vehicles are selling for more than the sticker price, then I'd either switch vehicles or just order one.

[Randy in Maine]

If I might offer just a bit of advice on buying a used tow vehicle would be to have a third party (like your trusted mechanic) have a good hard look at it before you decide to buy it. My "guy" charges $100 an hour and knows what to look for because he fixes them for a living every day. If you have to make some repairs at least know about it before you buy.

Just my 2 cents...

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by kavm

<Cross posted with Centex>

With respect, you are sure, but also surely wrong. Just because you go to a website that puts a $32K markup on top of the MSRP for a new vehicle means you are not paying attention and looking at an artificially inflated scam price...

I followed the links from the link provided by you - followed up and went to the dealer website and got the sticker for the vehicle being advertised for $98K in that link. The MSRP is $66K. The remainder ($32K) is a markup on top of MSRP. You can hardly use that data point to make the point of vehicles being too expensive.

FYI - I bought a new 2021 truck with MSRP that exceeds that of the truck in your link by about $10K and paid a little over $64K for that. And it has many more options.

I think it's great that Centex and yourself have provided valuable information about the difference between a dealers pricing on cars.com and what the actual manufacturing pricing is. I really do appreciate that info as I was unaware.

However I'm feeling frustrated and defensive with why you continue to speculate about my intent and my expertise concerning some listings I saw for F-150's that were $100k and how my jaw dropped in surprise. You suggested I was not sure that I actually saw those listings and also that my intent was to exaggerate the cost to go with the theme of the thread. I assure you I saw the listings, I provided an example and descriptions of others that are even more expensive (shelby and black ops models). I have stated that I was unaware about such heavy dealer markups and I have also stated that I regret making the comment about $100k F-150's because it's seemed to derail the thread.

You have proven your point about the listing being artificially high. I still stand by my statement that I was shocked to see it and I've been honest all along that tow vehicles feel too expensive me. What more do you expect out of someone posting on these for forums? What's the point if you expect everyone to already be an expert? Should I feel afraid to post because it will be analyzed to death? I will not be replying anymore concerning this tangent to the thread.

[gbaglo]

I bought my 2020 Highlander in August. Had my son-in-law do the negotiating.
Come the test drive, I took it around the block; less than two minute drive. Sales guy was taken aback, but my SIL had got his lease Lexus from him and my previous vehicle for 12 years was a RAV4.
Anyway having pretty much sealed the deal, we were handed over to a very attractive young lady with a broad smile who handled financing and the like. Her smile quickly evaporated as I turned down the paint protection, extended warranty, etc.
The very attractive young lady turned into a stone-cold efficient clerk. Signed the papers, handed over the cheque and that was that.

[kavm]

MichaelS78 -

I am sorry I offended you. No offense was intended. In the post you quoted, I had written a more assertive response as you were sticking to the $100K number even after it had been correctly questioned. Regardless - I regret that I caused you offense.

I look forward to future contributions from you.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by kavm

MichaelS78 -

I am sorry I offended you. No offense was intended. In the post you quoted, I had written a more assertive response as you were sticking to the $100K number even after it had been correctly questioned. Regardless - I regret that I caused you offense.

I look forward to future contributions from you.

Thanks I appreciate that. And after re-reading the posts I think I overreacted. Got stuck on thinking you were saying that I didn't actually see a listing for $100k when in actuality you were just pointing out that you highly doubted $100k was a true price. I haven't used forums in years and I'm trying to do it on my phone while holding a fussy baby.

[oldwave]

I think the point is that marketing highly optioned special edition vehicles for status is the big profit game for dealers and manufacturers. A base tundra with the same engine and transmission is 35k gussy it up with lipstick and pearls or fancy leather and appointments then it’s suddenly closer to 60k . A big scam in my opinion. 5 k worth of upgrades brings 25 k more in profit. The genius of modern marketing. I’m a cheapskate.

[gbaglo]

I propose a boycott. YES. That will work. Let's all boycott trucks.

[dlakeman]

My wife, German Shepherd (76 lbs), and I looked at a 19. No way were the 3 of us going to fit. We now have a 2020 21C. We barely fit. When the dog lays on his side he takes up a lot of floor space. I can't imagine having 2 kids as well. Find, though Escape's Ambassador program, a 19 and a 21 you can actually go see. I drove 4 hours one-way to look at a 21 after I drove one hour to see a 19.
Also, don't rely on Escape's weights when you are looking for a tow vehicle. For example, Escape says the 21C tongue weight is 365 lbs. When loaded for travel (including full propane tanks) my actual tongue weight is 512 lbs. Same holds true for trailer weight. I bought a 2020 F-150 as a tow vehicle, and glad I did. When I did the math on weights I thought I could tow my 21 with my Toyota 4Runner, which is supercharged. Many people on this Forum said I could tow with my 4Runner if I wanted to run at 3000RPM, going 50MPH, and stopping every 150 miles for gas. They were correct. The F-150 hardly knows my 21 is in tow. I don't know what the tow capacity of the Ford Ranger is, however I'd be very careful to get enough power, especially in WA state.

[brroberts]

Ranger: 7,500 lbs towing
270hp a 5,500 RPM
310 ft lbs torque @ 3000 RPM

[dlakeman]

This "new" 2020 F-150 with Max Tow Package is $38,716. There are more to choose from. I paid $42,126 last September for basically the same truck with a few more options. That $38K price is the price you will pay if you deal with the Internet Sales Manager.
https://www.teamfordlasvegas.com/new...09d339c689.htm
I traded a 2019 Toyota Avalon Touring Edition at the time because I anticipated needing the truck to tow my yet to be delivered 21C. Glad I did.

[dlakeman]

Here's a 2021 Ford Ranger with tow package from Team Ford Las Vegas. $39,175
https://www.teamfordlasvegas.com/new...6aded4f516.htm
Only has 2.3L EcoBoost. Better gas mileage than the F-150 for sure!

[brroberts]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

Here's a 2021 Ford Ranger with tow package from Team Ford Las Vegas. $39,175
https://www.teamfordlasvegas.com/new...6aded4f516.htm
Only has 2.3L EcoBoost. Better gas mileage than the F-150 for sure!

That sounds pretty high. It better be very loaded.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

Also, don't rely on Escape's weights when you are looking for a tow vehicle. For example, Escape says the 21C tongue weight is 365 lbs. When loaded for travel (including full propane tanks) my actual tongue weight is 512 lbs.

The weight listed by ETI is DRY tongue weight. That's before any options, batteries, propane, liquids. That's not interchangeable with your loaded weights.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

You and I are on the same page. It would be really tough to convince me that any light-duty truck is worth anywhere near $100K. Totally inflated and ridiculous.

did you get in one of those $100K F150's ? they are totally overloaded with electornic gadgets.

price the same truck with the same motor as a base model, like an XL, or even the work truck 'Custom' model, which you'll need to go to a Ford Commercial dealer to find.. skip the crew cab, skip the power leather heated massage seats, fancy alloy low profile wheels, 18 way computer controlled mirrors, etc etc etc.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

My wife, German Shepherd (76 lbs), and I looked at a 19. No way were the 3 of us going to fit. We now have a 2020 21C. We barely fit. When the dog lays on his side he takes up a lot of floor space. I can't imagine having 2 kids as well. Find, though Escape's Ambassador program, a 19 and a 21 you can actually go see. I drove 4 hours one-way to look at a 21 after I drove one hour to see a 19.
Also, don't rely on Escape's weights when you are looking for a tow vehicle. For example, Escape says the 21C tongue weight is 365 lbs. When loaded for travel (including full propane tanks) my actual tongue weight is 512 lbs. Same holds true for trailer weight. I bought a 2020 F-150 as a tow vehicle, and glad I did. When I did the math on weights I thought I could tow my 21 with my Toyota 4Runner, which is supercharged. Many people on this Forum said I could tow with my 4Runner if I wanted to run at 3000RPM, going 50MPH, and stopping every 150 miles for gas. They were correct. The F-150 hardly knows my 21 is in tow. I don't know what the tow capacity of the Ford Ranger is, however I'd be very careful to get enough power, especially in WA state.

Yeah I do worry about the interior size. Mainly because we haven't done much camping. I've done a fair amount before I met my wife but it was usually tent camping with my dog or meeting up with my parents and staying with them in their 5th wheel. We do plan on going camping quite a bit this year and will be staying in state park cabins and also meeting up with my parents staying with them in their 5th wheel.

Ive inquired about a 21ne through the escape ambassador program and it's close to us in the same city. Plan on calling the ambassador tomorrow so crossing fingers they will let us look inside. If it feels too small I don't really think we have many other options. Not really interested in pulling a larger stick trailer.

As for the f150 yes we are leaning towards it instead of the ranger. Mainly because I hadn't really give enough thought to transporting our large dog. I had pictured a dog bed and harness in the back of the truck under canopy with back window open so he felt like he was still able to be with us. But the more I think about it the more I think that's unsafe and inconvenient. Too many hard surfaces that he will bump into and in the summer we would have to remove canopy and use a kennel. It still rains in the summer in the pnw so doesn't sound doable. With the f150 he can ride laying on the floor in front of kids carseats.