Tow vehicles are too expensive

[brroberts]

I’ve heard a T6+ and also a little more. Not sure who’s right yet. Maybe it really is just a refresh, but the T6 has been around awhile.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by brroberts

If you have a year on the Ranger, 2022’s will be a new model. Ford Australia did the last
Ranger and has lead on this project too. It’s rumored to be the same 2.3L in the US variant. No pickups except the Ridgeline score very well at CR. Gas turbos don’t really have more DIY maintenance. Just stay on top of lubrication, but true of all moving parts. There can be some valve carbon build up. Top Tier brand gas and maybe a cleaning every 100 thou miles or so is the street talk. I’ll try to see if I can attach the 2.3 maintenance schedule as a pdf. The oil filter is harder to get to, but not crazy hard.

Ok thanks you very much. I just read through the maintenance pdf you linked and that's not bad at all. For some reason I was picturing needing to have extra services needed. Doesn't look to be anything more than what you stated (lubrication and top tier gas).

I think I may try to get one at the end of the year when dealers make room for the incoming model. Either that or start looking if I can find one used. Maybe someone with a 2019 trading in for a 2022.

[saguarocat]

We're towing a 17b with a 2020 Ranger SuperCab 4x4 and don't have any complaints. Some considerations though...


a. No factory-installed trailer brake controller. Ford rebrands a Redarc TBC and adds an additional control module to the mix that complicates the installation greatly. More details can be had on the Ranger 5G forum. We were lucky our dealer had one TBC in stock and they gave us a deal installing it.



b. No integrated towing mirrors. Instead we're using CIPO strap on mirrors that have exceeded expectations, they stay on if you remember to put them on! I avoid using the folding mirror feature because the mirrors bind the movement.



c. Small 18 gallon gas tank. We're getting between 12 and 18 mpg towing this winter at 55 to 68 mph while using premium as recommended in the Ranger manual. I've been worried a couple times while in the middle of central Nevada.



d. Dim instrumentation. I run with the lights on and wish the dashboard displays could be brighter, especially when wearing sunglasses.


The factory installed towing package comes with a 'tow mode' switch that delays shifting and engages the engine to maintain downhill speed. I use cruise control a lot and think both systems do a good job.


My impression is our small market Ford dealer doesn't know much beyond the F150 based on our buying experience and getting the TBC installed. Our first service is tomorrow so we'll see how that goes.


Lastly, we had no problem finding accessories like flaps, mats, bed liners/rugs, tonneau covers.

[rbryan4]

I'm thinking the thread should be titled "NEW tow vehicles are too expensive." I completely agree. But there are lots of bargains to be had in the used market.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I'm thinking the thread should be titled "NEW tow vehicles are too expensive." I completely agree. But there are lots of bargains to be had in the used market.

To be fair I did say I was looking for a tow vehicle for $20k. Please let me know where I can find a NEW tow vehicle for $20k and I will gladly go buy one and change the thread title for you.

Also, as Jeffrey G. Posted at the start of the thread,

$20k puts you into about an 8-10 year old full size pickup with 100k - 140k miles.

100k - 140k miles may still be useable but as someone new to RVing that sounds risky to use to truck the family and a $30k trailer across the country in.

So yes the thread title is appropriate. Tow vehicles are too expensive. Both used and new.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by saguarocat

We're towing a 17b with a 2020 Ranger SuperCab 4x4 and don't have any complaints. Some considerations though...


a. No factory-installed trailer brake controller. Ford rebrands a Redarc TBC and adds an additional control module to the mix that complicates the installation greatly. More details can be had on the Ranger 5G forum. We were lucky our dealer had one TBC in stock and they gave us a deal installing it.



b. No integrated towing mirrors. Instead we're using CIPO strap on mirrors that have exceeded expectations, they stay on if you remember to put them on! I avoid using the folding mirror feature because the mirrors bind the movement.



c. Small 18 gallon gas tank. We're getting between 12 and 18 mpg towing this winter at 55 to 68 mph while using premium as recommended in the Ranger manual. I've been worried a couple times while in the middle of central Nevada.



d. Dim instrumentation. I run with the lights on and wish the dashboard displays could be brighter, especially when wearing sunglasses.


The factory installed towing package comes with a 'tow mode' switch that delays shifting and engages the engine to maintain downhill speed. I use cruise control a lot and think both systems do a good job.


My impression is our small market Ford dealer doesn't know much beyond the F150 based on our buying experience and getting the TBC installed. Our first service is tomorrow so we'll see how that goes.


Lastly, we had no problem finding accessories like flaps, mats, bed liners/rugs, tonneau covers.

Thank you very much, this is all great info to know. Especially about the smaller gas tank and dim Instrumentation. Not deal breakers by any means but can be frustrating for sure.

[brroberts]

Ranger

I don’t see well and had no trouble reading the dash, but my comparison is my old Chevy which is all analog. The Redarc brake controller I am having done at the dealer also as part of the purchase. The extra module is so it works with the Ranger’s AEB. I could install my P3, but it will not work with the AEB. The small tank is my biggest concern, but I can carry gas for the long stretches. You can buy towing mirrors for T6 Rangers overseas, like EBAY UK, but you lose the blind spot monitoring. I’ll just use the McKesh mirrors.

[Mike G]

With a quick look on Autotrader I found a new 2020 model Ranger XL at a TX dealership for $21,381 after discounts. And a dealer here in town has a 2021 Supercab XL for under $25k. That's if a person can live without all the bells and whistles. For me, most bells and whistles don't add anything to the ability of the vehicle to get me where I'm going, nor do they contribute to longevity or lowest possible upkeep expenses. So I guess there are some deals to be had, with compromises.

[Doug2000]

My last 3 Toyota's were new. This time I decided I wanted a 2017 for a number of reasons, the lack of tech being one of them. I looked for 6 months and found a 3 and half year old Tundra with only 26,000 km or 20,000 miles for $38,000 CAD. I am really happy with it. Probably my last truck. My son wanted am old Forester, patience I said, we found a really clean one. My other son wanted a Jeep, we found a TJ that I doubt had ever been off road.

What I'm getting at is there are some really nice cream puffs out there. Vehicles that have been dealer services, well taken care of. You just need to decide what to stay away from and what you want. You just have to be patient.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

My last 3 Toyota's were new. This time I decided I wanted a 2017 for a number of reasons, the lack of tech being one of them. I looked for 6 months and found a 3 and half year old Tundra with only 26,000 km or 20,000 miles for $38,000 CAD. I am really happy with it. Probably my last truck. My son wanted am old Forester, patience I said, we found a really clean one. My other son wanted a Jeep, we found a TJ that I doubt had ever been off road.

What I'm getting at is there are some really nice cream puffs out there. Vehicles that have been dealer services, well taken care of. You just need to decide what to stay away from and what you want. You just have to be patient.

I did the same thing. I bought a 2018 Tundra in 2020 for $40K. I do not need the latest gadgets, I bring plenty of my own. I bring a portable sound system that is way better than the car (except for the stereo effect).

New ones are going as high as 65K right now. Check out Tundra Guy on YouTube. I purchased mine from AAA Used Car sales, which was a really smart idea. We know the owner and he treated me very fairly. You can do it, but it may take time. I also bought a Street Princess and turned her into a tow vehicle!

[kavm]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

I don't have a subscription to WSJ but I get the idea from the first page it let's you view. More and more people are comfortable extending loans out to 7 years. Which suggests that vehicle prices are too high for the middle class. I agree and my jaw dropped when I recently looked at prices of new F-150. Some were $100k!!! I guess I'm just a bit old school but I do not see how a half ton truck that's meant to be used to haul, tow and go off-road could be worth that amount of money to someone. Maybe a diesel dually would be but not a half ton. Such weird times we are living in.

Are you sure about that? I have just bought a special order 2021 F150. The few options I left out were due to the weight/payload (e.g. moon roof) and not due to money. The list price was close to $75K. Having spent a fair amount of time playing with the Ford configurator, I suspect one would have a very hard time going beyond a number in mid-80K, in list price. I am not even sure if getting the list price to 90K is even possible. And, one then gets to negotiate the discount off that. So, $100K is simply an exaggeration, much as it might support the message of this thread.

Different people assign different values to the options, so what something is worth varies by person.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

So yes the thread title is appropriate. Tow vehicles are too expensive. Both used and new.

It's relative. After all, you're not talking about towing a 10K trailer either. As for used prices, alot depends on where you live I guess. I can find a very decent 2013-2014 half ton pickup, well equipped, with maybe 100K miles, for around 18.5K here. I'm extraordinarily picky about my tow vehicles though, so I expect to pay alot more.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

..... my jaw dropped when I recently looked at prices of new F-150. Some were $100k!!! I guess I'm just a bit old school but I do not see how a half ton truck that's meant to be used to haul, tow and go off-road could be worth that amount of money to someone. ...

Following on kavm's point, attached is a real-world example of an F150 special order quote for a 2021 Supercab 4x4 with 6-1/2ft box and 5.0l V8. This in XLT trim level and aimed at capturing all of the latest towing-related features Ford offers. Most of the separately listed items are 'forced by bundling' with that trailer-towing objective in mind but there are a few items like the power-rear window, tailgate step and spray-in bedliner that could be dropped without affecting things directly related to towing. The 4x4 is about a $3k chunk of this price IIRC (it's not itemized separately).

MSRP $52,430 / "Invoice" $48,900. Yeah, "invoice" is a funny and varied number in this business (there is more than one "invoice" price for any given vehicle) but this dealer is actually selling at that "Invoice" price for the special order. One might be able to negotiate further from there.

No, it's not cheap, but it's a long way from $100k for a brand new full-size PU that would be a very nicely equipped and a more than capable 'tug' for any Escape trailer. You can certainly run-up the price (and chip-away at the payload rating) with higher trim levels and more 'farkles' on the option list.

Just FYI / FWIW for real-world context, each reader can decide if this example is "too expensive" by whatever measures they choose to apply, obviously YMMV.

[NCBill]

One of the “advantages” of a big 3 pickup is they tend to depreciate quickly. We bought a five year old F150 with only 12,000 miles on it fir half of what the owner paid for it new. Why? Because regardless of mileage, it was five years old. Now to buy something like this you need to buy from a private seller and it helps to pay cash. Buying from a dealer that can provide financing tends to bump up the price a lot.

Now when you buy one of the big 3 new, YOU get all the depreciation. Our next truck might just be a new one as it could be our last TV buy. Might as well get everything we want. Used means you must be willing to compromise.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by kavm

Are you sure about that? I have just bought a special order 2021 F150. The few options I left out were due to the weight/payload (e.g. moon roof) and not due to money. The list price was close to $75K. Having spent a fair amount of time playing with the Ford configurator, I suspect one would have a very hard time going beyond a number in mid-80K, in list price. I am not even sure if getting the list price to 90K is even possible. And, one then gets to negotiate the discount off that. So, $100K is simply an exaggeration, much as it might support the message of this thread.

Different people assign different values to the options, so what something is worth varies by person.

Yes I'm sure, here's a link to one from cars.com.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...ff=share_email

Plenty more around this price, some are even over $100k but upon closer look those are the shelby model. One was a black ops model.

I was only making the $100k comment in regards to the article linked from WSJ about people willing to spend much more on vehicles. Not that I believe I would have to pay 100k fir an f150

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Centex

Following on kavm's point, attached is a real-world example of an F150 special order quote for a 2021 Supercab 4x4 with 6-1/2ft box and 5.0l V8. This in XLT trim level and aimed at capturing all of the latest towing-related features Ford offers. Most of the separately listed items are 'forced by bundling' with that trailer-towing objective in mind but there are a few items like the power-rear window, tailgate step and spray-in bedliner that could be dropped without affecting things directly related to towing. The 4x4 is about a $3k chunk of this price IIRC (it's not itemized separately).

MSRP $52,430 / "Invoice" $48,900. Yeah, "invoice" is a funny and varied number in this business (there is more than one "invoice" price for any given vehicle) but this dealer is actually selling at that "Invoice" price for the special order. One might be able to negotiate further from there.

No, it's not cheap, but it's a long way from $100k for a brand new full-size PU that would be a very nicely equipped and a more than capable 'tug' for any Escape trailer. You can certainly run-up the price (and chip-away at the payload rating) with higher trim levels and more 'farkles' on the option list.

Just FYI / FWIW for real-world context, each reader can decide if this example is "too expensive" by whatever measures they choose to apply, obviously YMMV.

That link with costs is great info thanks. Doesn't seem too bad for a new F-150 when you start at the base costs without options. And as far as the $100k comment, again that was in regard to the WSJ article about people willing to spend more abd extend out loan time. Not what I thought I would have to pay. Kind of feel like I derailed the thread a bit with that comment.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Yes I'm sure, here's a link to one from cars.com.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...ff=share_email

Just FYI, when you follow that link and jump to the dealer website you'll find that the Monroney (window) sticker on that '$98.5k' truck is 'only' $64,690. There's a crazy bunch of 'dealer add-ons' in that deal - stuff added after it left the Ford factory - shenanigans that aren't at all reflective of the manufacturer pricing situation which was the primary topic of the WSJ article methinks (gotta be careful of apples-to-oranges when trying to make a point, but yeah I guess someone is willing to pay for that $98.5k F150(?!) ).

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Centex

Just FYI, when you follow that link and jump to the dealer website you'll find that the Monroney (window) sticker on that '$98.5k' truck is 'only' $64,690. There's a crazy bunch of 'dealer add-ons' in that deal - stuff added after it left the Ford factory - shenanigans that aren't at all reflective of the manufacturer pricing situation which was the primary topic of the WSJ article methinks (gotta be careful of apples-to-oranges when trying to make a point, but yeah I guess someone is willing to pay for that $98.5k F150(?!) ).

Wow I was not aware dealers could raise the price that much. I wonder what the out the door price ends up? Maybe closer to $80k?

[Centex]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Wow I was not aware dealers could raise the price that much. I wonder what the out the door price ends up? Maybe closer to $80k?

Dealers can, and some will, 'customize' vehicles after they leave the manufacturer to extents you or I might consider totally nuts ..... they gamble on what their local market will bear, negotiate from the crazy price they post, and 99% of the time will eventually find a buyer and close a deal that puts a huge profit in the dealer's pocket. None of this requires any approval or involvement of the manufacturer.

Again, while this phenomenon may be a valid comment on what some folks will spend for their toys, it has little to do with the manufacturer pricing of vehicles these days, IMO.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Yes I'm sure, here's a link to one from cars.com.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...ff=share_email

Plenty more around this price, some are even over $100k but upon closer look those are the shelby model. One was a black ops model.

I was only making the $100k comment in regards to the article linked from WSJ about people willing to spend much more on vehicles. Not that I believe I would have to pay 100k fir an f150

<Cross posted with Centex>

With respect, you are sure, but also surely wrong. Just because you go to a website that puts a $32K markup on top of the MSRP for a new vehicle means you are not paying attention and looking at an artificially inflated scam price...

I followed the links from the link provided by you - followed up and went to the dealer website and got the sticker for the vehicle being advertised for $98K in that link. The MSRP is $66K. The remainder ($32K) is a markup on top of MSRP. You can hardly use that data point to make the point of vehicles being too expensive.

FYI - I bought a new 2021 truck with MSRP that exceeds that of the truck in your link by about $10K and paid a little over $64K for that. And it has many more options.