Towing Help Please, Bounce Bounce Bounce - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Towing and Hitching
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-13-2022, 07:26 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Doug2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: London, Ontario
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 1,036
Towing Help Please, Bounce Bounce Bounce

So we have had the 19 for 3 summers now. I canít get a smooth ride from the combo of a Tundra and E19. I have written a full thread on the Tundra forum. If you could take a minute and click the link, that would be awesome. Let me know what Iím doing wrong. I have adjusted the Pro Series on links 2, 3, and 4. 4 links wasnít enough tongue weight, 2 didnít have very much tension on the chains. A reply on the Tundra thread suggested the Pro Series may be too stiff for an Escape. Another reply suggested 40 psi in the truck tires. I donít want to throw money at this unless Iím sure what the problem is. The 2017 Tundra only has 41,000km.



https://www.tundras.com/threads/towi...500lbs.111391/
__________________

__________________
2020 Escape 19, AKA The Escape Pod 2
Trailer #6 was a 2007 Escape 17B
2017 Toyota Tundra 5.7L 4X4 DC Silver
Following TravellingRobert on Youtube
Doug2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 08:19 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
rubicon327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 6,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
So we have had the 19 for 3 summers now. I canít get a smooth ride from the combo of a Tundra and E19. I have written a full thread on the Tundra forum. If you could take a minute and click the link, that would be awesome. Let me know what Iím doing wrong. I have adjusted the Pro Series on links 2, 3, and 4. 4 links wasnít enough tongue weight, 2 didnít have very much tension on the chains. A reply on the Tundra thread suggested the Pro Series may be too stiff for an Escape. Another reply suggested 40 psi in the truck tires. I donít want to throw money at this unless Iím sure what the problem is. The 2017 Tundra only has 41,000km.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/towi...500lbs.111391/
Doug: Iíve had some porpoising when the tongue weight was too light. Towing with older 4Runners. It was this same trip I also had some sway. You have your total trailer weight so my suggestion is to get a Sherline tongue scale and load the trailer until you have a minimum 10-15% on the tongue. For most 19ís thatís probably 400-500#. Use weights or containers of water. Put some water in the gray tank which is in front of the axles. Take the bikes off the back. See how it rides with and without the WDH. Iím no expert but a 10K rated weight distribution is probably way too high. Weíve added a 600/6000# rated Equal-i-zer with four point sway control and it tows incredibly well. Also if you are getting a lot of squat on the Tundra rear make sure your springs are good. Sounds like the rear is maybe a bit soft. Iím guessing but based on my experience you have a combination of soft rear and not enough tongue weight. Also the WDH may not be the best selection.
__________________

__________________
Mods to Rubicon: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post249508
ďOne way to get the most out of life is to look upon it as an adventure.Ē― W.F.
rubicon327 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 08:33 AM   #3
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 25,789
I'm confused over why you are using a w/d hitch set up? I have towed 5 various Escapes over past 10 years, not once using/needing a w/d hitch with my tow vehicle. I did add air shocks a couple of years ago to counter sag in the rear coil suspension.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 09:29 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 21 2019 Expedition
Posts: 4,827
Did you buy the Pro Series from Escape? They sell it with 600# bars. Buying after-market some may be tempted to buy the 1000# bar hitch as it costs less. That would be too stiff.
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
Rossue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 11:24 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 7,274
Our experience with the 19 was very good as to how it towed. We pulled with a 2012 Highlander which has a pretty soft rear suspension. Our set up was as follows:
Escape supplied pro tow WDH 600 lbs model, tongue weight of 3740 and hitch weight of 420. Fourteen inch tires came on those 2010 19s. I ran those at 46 lbs I think I recall. I run They we’re balanced and I religiously checked the pressure to keep them even.
I run1.5 more pounds pressure in the rears on the tow rig than the fronts. Like 41.5 psi rear to 40 psi front. We had dual 6 Volt batteries in the front box, along with dual propane tanks and anything heavy in the front side box . Quite a bit of storage under the bed but kept lighter stuff under there. In the wise words of the man who sold us the 19, “You can’t overload that tongue on the 19”. Meaning “ TO A POINT” the heavier the better. The first 100 miles or so that I towed I was very concerned about how the Highlander would handle sway or porpoising. There was none and I couldn’t make the trailer sway. I am not an expert but I find that you “gotta play around with it” a little to find the right combo if there is one possible. My tow vehicle sat at the factory height measured at the inner front fender arc. The spring bars on the WDH were tight and I had 4 links hanging. Contrary to what some folks recommend the trailer might have been very slightly nose down off level when all loaded up for the road depending on grey and fresh water content but it always towed great. Not over a couple degrees nose down.
Iowa Dave
__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 12:05 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Boerne, Texas
Trailer: 2021 21C
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I'm confused over why you are using a w/d hitch set up? I have towed 5 various Escapes over past 10 years, not once using/needing a w/d hitch with my tow vehicle. I did add air shocks a couple of years ago to counter sag in the rear coil suspension.
I would have previously agreed with not needing a w/d hitch and although that may still be the case, I DO see a need for sway control. So if you are getting sway control why not get a w/d hitch.
My wife and I took a trip after getting our new trailer. I had worked overnight and needed some sleep during travel. I normally drive but my wife felt confident enough to pull the trailer so she did. Everything was fine until she accelerated onto the interstate and a tractor trailer passed. The trailer began to sway and she didn't know what to do. luckily I woke up and quickly coached her through what could have really been a disaster. Needless to say I drove the rest of the way and a w/d hitch w/sway control was ordered when we returned home.
I'm sure the trailer could have been loaded wrong or some other step missed but for me it was an eye opener and one I felt shouldn't be ignored for our and others safety.
Ryanb-72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 04:12 PM   #7
Site Team
 
John in Santa Cruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mid Left Coast, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 4,185
the spring bar based WDH I had, you adjusted the WDH via a large bolt that set the rest angle of the bars. measure height of rear bumper before hitching, hitch up, measure height again and take the difference, we'll call that "D"... then adjust the WDH until the height is around "D/4" under the first number when the chains are hooked up, and always use the same number of chain links. Once the height is adjusted, you tighten whatever lock stuff holds it in place (varies per hitch model, I had a EAZ-Lift 600 lb). this does require some heavy duty big wrenches.
John in Santa Cruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 04:24 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
HABBERDABBER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Madison area, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2016 Escape 19 Chevy 2012 Express 3500 Van
Posts: 1,214
You'll never know

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I'm confused over why you are using a w/d hitch set up? I have towed 5 various Escapes over past 10 years, not once using/needing a w/d hitch with my tow vehicle. I did add air shocks a couple of years ago to counter sag in the rear coil suspension.
There is a significant improvement in towing experience and safety using a WDH. If you've never used one, you'll never, ever know that.

Do as you please.
HABBERDABBER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 04:26 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Ron in BC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 7,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I'm confused over why you are using a w/d hitch set up? I have towed 5 various Escapes over past 10 years, not once using/needing a w/d hitch with my tow vehicle. I did add air shocks a couple of years ago to counter sag in the rear coil suspension.
The question is: have you ever towed with a WDH?

I had decades of towing without one until I bought the 19. I've towed short distances without bothering to hook up the WDH and probably don't "need" one but, boy, can I ever feel the difference. Like the integrated, as one, feel.

Ron
Ron in BC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 04:42 PM   #10
MVA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Mexico, New Mexico
Trailer: 2017 E19
Posts: 447
It really come down to your towing needs. If you are going 45 mph for 20 miles to a campground, then just drop the trailer on a ball hitch and be done. If you are towing 6000 miles for a couple of months at up to 75 mph with 50 mph crosswinds in open plains or through mountain passes for up to 12 hour long tow days (like us!), then a WDH with sway control is a must in my opinion.

Like many things, decision space is dependent on requirements.

On a related comment per rubicon327 topic below, for reference our E19 has a tongue load of 11% with a full fresh water tank (worse case).
MVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 04:43 PM   #11
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 25,789
I had a w/d with my first E21 in 2014, used once and then sold sold it. I understand there is an extra margin of safety while using one, but that can be achieved with proper loading and lower speed.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 04:53 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 7,274
Trailers

The only place I donít hook up the WDH is when I tow the trailer from the storage garage around to the front of the house. Thatís about 125 feet. And it means Iím going to take it off the hitch immediately for washing, winterizing, or inside work. My tools, cleaning supplies, close hose connections both hot and cold water are in the house garage. It just makes it easier. Iíve towed a lot of trailers without a WDH but usually with a truck way bigger than I needed and usually in the city. Out on the road I like stability and control. Heaviest trailer I ever pulled was loaded with a TD 24 International Dozer with swamp pads. 46,000 lbs. plus the trailer. Freightliner FL 80 tandem axle dump truck was the TV. I distinctly heard it moan ďUhhh NoĒ when we started out but once we were going she found our it wasnít so bad. I drove a TD 20 across this bridge for a guy who said ďI got kids and I canít swim. I think it will hold you.Ē
Selway River above Selway Falls in Idaho , 1969.
Attached Thumbnails
405CFD53-CD96-445F-A29C-98CD63500D40.jpg   6CA25CF5-64CE-44AD-B0DD-1A1384FF4096.jpg  
__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 06:19 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Ron in BC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 7,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I had a w/d with my first E21 in 2014, used once and then sold sold it. I understand there is an extra margin of safety while using one, but that can be achieved with proper loading and lower speed.
Ah, there's the reason I use one. I've never weighted my tongue, haven't loaded the trailer much different than anyone else so why would the tongue weight be unreasonable and as far as towing at a lower speed .

Ron
Ron in BC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 06:22 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Mucram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: boise, Idaho
Trailer: 2018 19'
Posts: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
The only place I donít hook up the WDH is when I tow the trailer from the storage garage around to the front of the house. Thatís about 125 feet. And it means Iím going to take it off the hitch immediately for washing, winterizing, or inside work. My tools, cleaning supplies, close hose connections both hot and cold water are in the house garage. It just makes it easier. Iíve towed a lot of trailers without a WDH but usually with a truck way bigger than I needed and usually in the city. Out on the road I like stability and control. Heaviest trailer I ever pulled was loaded with a TD 24 International Dozer with swamp pads. 46,000 lbs. plus the trailer. Freightliner FL 80 tandem axle dump truck was the TV. I distinctly heard it moan ďUhhh NoĒ when we started out but once we were going she found our it wasnít so bad. I drove a TD 20 across this bridge for a guy who said ďI got kids and I canít swim. I think it will hold you.Ē
Selway River above Selway Falls in Idaho , 1969.
Beautiful pics of selway. Had Rez last month for OíHara bar. Cancelled due to rock slide. Instead did hwy 14 & 12. Even did a little of magruder.
__________________
Julie
Mucram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 08:22 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 7,274
Selway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mucram View Post
Beautiful pics of selway. Had Rez last month for OíHara bar. Cancelled due to rock slide. Instead did hwy 14 & 12. Even did a little of magruder.
My wife Rita and I were lookouts on Lookout Butte the first three months we were married in 1970. Spotted quite a few fires that summer, she perfected the huckleberry pie and another guy and I roofed the lookout. No railing, no fall safety device, just steady nerves and good balance as she swayed in the wind.
Weíve stopped there for a day or two on the way back from Osoyoos in 2016, 17 and 19. Camped at OíHara each time.
In 1990 we spent three days on the lookout with the kids as itís a rental now. One year on the way home from Osoyoos we went to Sweetgrass Montana to visit our friend Joyce who was the lookout on Indian Hill for many years.
That country holds a special place in our hearts.
Iowa Dave
__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2022, 10:09 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
rubicon327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 6,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
There is a significant improvement in towing experience and safety using a WDH.
Agreed. We used to tow right on the ball. Then added the Equal-i-zer WDH for a more solid ride. Would never go back.
__________________
Mods to Rubicon: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post249508
ďOne way to get the most out of life is to look upon it as an adventure.Ē― W.F.
rubicon327 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 01:44 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Doug2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: London, Ontario
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 1,036
Thanks for the responses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the replies here and on the Tundra forum, I'll bump my truck tire air pressure and see what results I get.

I had tried towing without the torsion bars. We had to get home fast on one trip and I forgot to hook them up, the ride was horrible.

I was concerned the Pro Series I got from Escape was over sized but no one here mentioned that as a possibility. Another concern is maybe not enough weight up front, although not sure what to do about that. Although I often take 2 bike on the back the last trip I did not and no change in the ride quality.

I wonder if I would ne OK with just airbags? Forget the torsion bars.
__________________
2020 Escape 19, AKA The Escape Pod 2
Trailer #6 was a 2007 Escape 17B
2017 Toyota Tundra 5.7L 4X4 DC Silver
Following TravellingRobert on Youtube
Doug2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 02:37 AM   #18
Site Team
 
John in Santa Cruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mid Left Coast, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 4,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
I wonder if I would ne OK with just airbags? Forget the torsion bars.
I had a Tacoma 4x4 TRD Off Road which has rather large tall tires, and very soft long travel suspension, optimized for offroading.

I was towing a Casita 16' with it, whihc has a rather light tongue weight... just hitch towing, the stock combintation was really bouncy, any sort of dip or bump in the road meant several cycles of pitching in the drivers seat, quite nauseating.

So, I got a WDH, set it up, and used it for a season, it worked quite well, completely eliminated the 'porpoising'. But I was also loading the back of the truck pretty heavily, and it was sagging quite a bit even before hitching, so I went ahead and both upgraded the truck shock absorbers to better bilsteins, and I added the Firestone RideRite airbag kit to it. First trip we took after that was fairly short, so I left the WDH at home, and well.... I never used the WDH again. On *that* rig, with that light trailer, the airbags were all it needed to stiffen up the rear end when heavily loaded, but leave it nice and soft when running around empty on dirt roads. It only took a few minutes with a proper bicycle 'floor pump' to adjust the pressure of the bags from 5 psi for 'empty' to 35-40 PSI for 'full'. left and right airbag had their own tire valve mounted on the back bumper near the license plate.

fast forward, I pulled an Escape 21 home from Dallas TX to the west coast with that same Tacoma, it pulled just fine, no comfort issues, but also no truck payload left, so I upgraded to an F250 diesel, big beast of a truck, it is completely stock, and I've haven't had to do anything to the suspension other than install better shocks (the old ones were pretty much mush, so I installed Rancho 9000XL adjustable shocks on it), and they rock on that big heavy 4x4.

My biggest complaint about the F250 is its 21 feet long (its a 8 foot longbed with a cab-and-a-half), and its turning circle is like 62 feet curb to curb, so maneuvering it in tight spaces is challenging. Secondary complaint is, the old 7.3 powerstroke diesel is pretty noisy. We've toyed with getting a newish Ford Expedition, but they are *so* expensive and unobtanium right now. I want one with the FX4 offroad package, and those seem to be non-existent on the west coast.
John in Santa Cruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 04:57 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
UncleTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2020 Escape 5.0TA "Zen"
Posts: 1,344
I have a Tundra with Firestone air bags. But I pull a 5.0.

The air bags do help. I also pull a 12 foot flat bed trailer for my whitewater boat. With air bags inflated to 20#, I can't see the trailer.

Air bags help keep the Tundra level while towing with a king pin. I believe they help with up and down bounce too. I am glad to have air bags.
UncleTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 07:01 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
escape artist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 7,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleTim View Post
I have a Tundra with Firestone air bags. But I pull a 5.0.

The air bags do help. I also pull a 12 foot flat bed trailer for my whitewater boat. With air bags inflated to 20#, I can't see the trailer.

Air bags help keep the Tundra level while towing with a king pin. I believe they help with up and down bounce too. I am glad to have air bags.
Hi: UncleTim.. I didn't realize the "One owner" Ram EcoDiesel I bought had air bags. I even missed the tell tale air nozzle in the rear bumper till I washed it. I keep them inflated all the time and just got used to the ride!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________

__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
escape artist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.
×