Trailer not level towing

[Crows Nest]

So I should measure the ball height with trailer on the hitch, unhitch, then mount the ball higher (the amount it was lower than 19”)?

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Crows Nest

So I should measure the ball height with trailer on the hitch, unhitch, then mount the ball higher (the amount it was lower than 19”)?

Yes, on as level ground as possible, measure to the top of the ball (hitch ball cup metal on top of ball is fine) while all hitched up, with WD bars engaged like you are ready to pull out and travel.

That value should be 19" (if you don't have the "body lift" option).

You can raise the ball by changing which holes in the receiver hitch are utilized, then you can fine tune, if needed, with the washers that control the "tilt" of the ball head.

[7Gentex]

Seeing your other post on removing the backup cam.............

I guess all is good to go on hitch height?

[Crows Nest]

Just ordered a heavier WDH. Thanks for asking.

[7Gentex]

Raised ball not enough I take it?

Good luck sir.

Takes a bit of tweaking to get there.

[CharlesinGA]

Escapes, like Airstreams, and a few other trailers, use Dexter torsion axles. These two axles are totally independent of each other, and both are expected to carry a like amount of weight. If the trailer sits nose low, this puts more of the trailer's weight on the forward axle and this makes the trailer feel like it is tail heavy and will have more tendency to sway. Having the trailer nose high, has the opposite effect, making the tongue heavier and the tail lighter, and less chance of sway. The problem is the tires on the front and rear axles will wear unevenly, with the one carrying the most weight, wearing faster. You want the trailer level, but as noted, if when all is loaded, fueled, hitches up, bars snapped up in place, and ready to roll, you cannot get it level, go to the next hole higher.

Leaf spring trailers have an equalizer between the front and rear springs on each side, and so a leaf spring trailer needs to be way out of level to have any real effect on towing stability.

Charles

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

Escapes, like Airstreams, and a few other trailers, use Dexter torsion axles. These two axles are totally independent of each other, and both are expected to carry a like amount of weight. If the trailer sits nose low, this puts more of the trailer's weight on the forward axle and this makes the trailer feel like it is tail heavy and will have more tendency to sway. Having the trailer nose high, has the opposite effect, making the tongue heavier and the tail lighter, and less chance of sway. The problem is the tires on the front and rear axles will wear unevenly, with the one carrying the most weight, wearing faster. You want the trailer level, but as noted, if when all is loaded, fueled, hitches up, bars snapped up in place, and ready to roll, you cannot get it level, go to the next hole higher.

Leaf spring trailers have an equalizer between the front and rear springs on each side, and so a leaf spring trailer needs to be way out of level to have any real effect on towing stability.

Charles

My simple mind thinks a nose low condition makes the front axle (Dexter torsion independent approach) carry more of the load, with a heavier tongue weight and a lighter rear axle weight.

Sway could be induced due to the "shorter" distance from the hitch to the "more" loaded axle....?

Nose high would result in a lighter front axle, a lighter tongue weight, and a heavier rear axle......I think.......?

If not level, torsion type independent axles would like a bit of nose high, versus nose low is what I have always heard / thought...........??

Leaf springs, with an equalizer, are a whole different ball game.

But, you still need to get the loaded ball height right to begin with..........guess the OP could not do that with the lighter weight bars on the hitch he had originally as he has a heavier version on order? He didn't really opine on what steps he took............

[Crows Nest]

Before installing the heavier version I will raise the hitch ball. However, based on research and helpful input from folks on the forum I think, in the long run, expecting a 4500 GTW hitch to handle a 5000 GTW trailer is expecting too much from the hitch. We’ll see. ETI installed the frame brackets when we picked up the trailer (had the hitch from previous trailer). The tech told me they recommend the heavier one.

[John in Santa Cruz]

are you sure you have the existing WDH weight distribution maximized ? The manual said something about stacking washers on a bolt and/or raising the 'shelf' that the bars sit on.

[CharlesinGA]

I bought an Equalizer and used it on a 20 ft Thor trailer I bought. Hitch was a PITA to set up, bars were extremely heavy, stupid heavy, and put a lot of stress on the tongue of the trailer and the hitch of the truck. I gave it away with the Thor.

I have a Blue Ox Sway Pro on my Sasquatch and could not be happier, easy to set up, spring bars that act like spring bars (equalizer had the same 1000 lb tongue wt rating and I swear that everything but the bars flexed.) If you need to change spring bars, you have to buy a new hitch head also. Bars do not interchange between models. Equalizer has very little room for a socket to torque the ball so you need a "special" thin wall one. 450 lb/ft of torque. Cross bolts on the head of the Equalizer are 250 lb/ft if I recall. They do have very good online instructions with all torques and details.

I despise the Equalizer.

Charles

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

I bought an Equalizer and used it on a 20 ft Thor trailer I bought.............

(equalizer had the same 1000 lb tongue wt rating and I swear that everything but the bars flexed.) If you need to change spring bars, you have to buy a new hitch head also. Bars do not interchange between models............


I despise the Equalizer.

Charles

While not disagreeing with you - The Equalizer and the Fastaway E2 the OP stated he had are not the same hitch. Different company and a different product - though very similar it appears.

#1,000 bars on a 20" trailer seems excessive - what was your tongue weight? No wonder the WD bars did not flex...........

Also, many WD bars are interchangeable within the same brand thought there is a jump in bar diameter at higher weights (like > #750 ?) though some brands have interchangeable sleeves / bearings for the hitch head to accommodate such changes.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

While not disagreeing with you - The Equalizer and the Fastaway E2 the OP stated he had are not the same hitch. Different company and a different product - though very similar it appears.

#1,000 bars on a 20" trailer seems excessive - what was your tongue weight? No wonder the WD bars did not flex...........

Also, many WD bars are interchangeable within the same brand thought there is a jump in bar diameter at higher weights (like > #750 ?) though some brands have interchangeable sleeves / bearings for the hitch head to accommodate such changes.

yeah, the WDH I used for a year was a 6000/600 lb one, and it had various bar sizes up to like 12000 lb gwr and 1200 lb tongue weight. It was the chain variety... ah, here. Note this was between a 16 ft Casita and a rather bouncy Tacoma TRD OffRoad before I upgraded the tacoma with better shocks and airbags, after which I stopped using the WDH.




this combination rode dead level after I adjusted it

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Rossue

I've been towing my 21 with my 2019 Expedition for four years now and occasionally don't put the spring bars on. They make a noticeable difference, primarily with porpoising and general slop.

I suppose I really should consider getting a WDH setup before we leave on our long trip, because yes, the couple short trips towing the E21 with our Exp, I could feel a hint of pitching on rough pavement transitions, but we're leaving in about 6 weeks and I'm not sure I can get one ordered, installed, and correctly setup in time.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

I bought an Equalizer and used it on a 20 ft Thor trailer I bought. Hitch was a PITA to set up, bars were extremely heavy, stupid heavy, and put a lot of stress on the tongue of the trailer and the hitch of the truck. I gave it away with the Thor.

I have a Blue Ox Sway Pro on my Sasquatch and could not be happier, easy to set up, spring bars that act like spring bars (equalizer had the same 1000 lb tongue wt rating and I swear that everything but the bars flexed.) If you need to change spring bars, you have to buy a new hitch head also. Bars do not interchange between models. Equalizer has very little room for a socket to torque the ball so you need a "special" thin wall one. 450 lb/ft of torque. Cross bolts on the head of the Equalizer are 250 lb/ft if I recall. They do have very good online instructions with all torques and details.

I despise the Equalizer.

Charles

what is the GWR and tongue weight of those two trailers?

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by Crows Nest

Before installing the heavier version I will raise the hitch ball. However, based on research and helpful input from folks on the forum I think, in the long run, expecting a 4500 GTW hitch to handle a 5000 GTW trailer is expecting too much from the hitch. We’ll see. ETI installed the frame brackets when we picked up the trailer (had the hitch from previous trailer). The tech told me they recommend the heavier one.

Yep, but the rated tongue weight for the hitch / bars is the kicker.

If tongue weight is XXX, and the WD bars are XX - No Joy

Smooth sailing to come sir!

[John in Santa Cruz]

and remember, a 5000 lb trailer's tongue *should* be between 500 and 750 lbs (10-15%) for stabilities sake. the actual tongue weight depends heavily on how the trailer is loaded.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I suppose I really should consider getting a WDH setup before we leave on our long trip, because yes, the couple short trips towing the E21 with our Exp, I could feel a hint of pitching on rough pavement transitions, but we're leaving in about 6 weeks and I'm not sure I can get one ordered, installed, and correctly setup in time.

You won't regret it. My 2013 Yukon was ok towing sometimes w/o the WDH. Difference is it had a live rear axle vs. independent rear suspension. Expy way more comfortable, however has much more squat, whereas there no visible squat with the Yukon- it just reduced porpoising & otherwise felt more secure.

The 21C with so much forward weight - bed, bathroom & significant underneath storage doesn't need anti sway IMO & a standard WDH like the Pro Series is all you need. Very easy to install too.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Rossue

You won't regret it. My 2013 Yukon was ok towing sometimes w/o the WDH. Difference is it had a live rear axle vs. independent rear suspension. Expy way more comfortable, however has much more squat, whereas there no visible squat with the Yukon- it just reduced porpoising & otherwise felt more secure.

The 21C with so much forward weight - bed, bathroom & significant underneath storage doesn't need anti sway IMO & a standard WDH like the Pro Series is all you need. Very easy to install too.

re forward weight, I dunno, I find my 21C tends towards nose light. When my bikes were racked on the back, and the trailer was normally loaded for a trip, I found under 400 lbs tongue weight, so I started moving heavier cargo like beverages as far forward as practical, and only put the lightest stuff like blankets, spare paper products under the rear benches.

does your Expedition have the CCDS, Computer Controlled Dynamic Shock absorbers ? That was bundled with the 'Stealth' package on mine, but available on others as an option. The CCDS makes an amazing difference in the ride quality, and I'm suspecting greatly helps with controlling any trailer induced porpoiseing. it also greatly reduces body roll on sporty cornering.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

re forward weight, I dunno, I find my 21C tends towards nose light. When my bikes were racked on the back, and the trailer was normally loaded for a trip, I found under 400 lbs tongue weight, so I started moving heavier cargo like beverages as far forward as practical, and only put the lightest stuff like blankets, spare paper products under the rear benches.

does your Expedition have the CCDS, Computer Controlled Dynamic Shock absorbers ? That was bundled with the 'Stealth' package on mine, but available on others as an option. The CCDS makes an amazing difference in the ride quality, and I'm suspecting greatly helps with controlling any trailer induced porpoiseing. it also greatly reduces body roll on sporty cornering.

Under 400 #'s tongue weight? Has that ever been stated at Trailer Weights The Real World? For a trailer that weighs 4K- 4.5K (gen 1 21) of course it should have a tongue weight at a minimum of 400#'s. Ours is usually around 450#'s. Have you weighed it at a CAT scale? We keep a lot of stuff in the front box as well as under the bed; YMMV as they say.

We do not have CCD, however even with it you would likely still prefer a WDH.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I weighed it at my hitch with a trailer spring scale, and yes, 400# tongue weight for a 4500 lb trailer is too light, I could feel the trailer was tongue light and that while it didn't actually sway, it didn't feel as inherently stable as it would with more tongue weight.